Episode 253 – Unstoppable Coach and Founder of Brighter Leaders with Lizzie Claesson

Unstoppable Mindset

It is always fun to talk with and learn from executive coaches and those who help shape and train corporate and thought leaders. Today we get to hear from such a person, Lizzie Claesson. Lizzie grew up in Argentina, where she developed an interest in business. After college she joined a company that caused her to travel a fair amount. While working for her company she needed to spend some time in Ann Arbor, Michigan. While there she met a man from Sweden and within a year they were married. She and her husband decided to move to Sweden to see if living there would work out for them as a family. As she says, that was 25 years ago and they are still there. Her story of how she became an executive coach of leaders is interesting and better told by her. Suffice it to say that now she is highly recognized including having received awards for her work. Lizzie is the author of several books which are available to you on her website, www.brighterleaders.com. Lizzie offers us many interesting and substantive insights into leaders, leadership and the challenges many in positions of leadership face. Her suggestions are worth your time to hear. I hope you enjoy our time with Lizzie and that you may find it relevant and helpful to reach out to her. About the Guest: Lizzie Claesson, the founder of Brighter Leaders, brings a deep understanding of the unique pressures faced by CEOs, HR professionals, and C-level executives. With a keen insight into the constraints of time and budget, Lizzie leverages her expertise to offer innovative solutions aimed at revolutionizing employee performance. Her goal is to not just meet but surpass company KPIs.

With a background as a management consultant and 25 years of business experience, Lizzie has equipped numerous clients with the essential tools and knowledge for reaching their full potential, contributing significantly to both individual and organizational success. Her diverse qualifications include Swedish, Spanish, English, and Danish Coaching Certifications accredited by the European Mentoring and Coaching Council. (www.emccglobal.org)

In December 2022, Lizzie's exceptional coaching abilities were acknowledged when she was named one of Stockholm's top coaches by Influence Digest.

Additionally, Lizzie is an acclaimed author with impactful works like 'Stop Worrying About How To Level-Up Your Leadership' and 'From Suffering to Surfing,' the latter achieving the #1 spot on Amazon. Ways to connect with Lizzie: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/coachingbrighterleaders/?show_switched_toast=0&show_invite_to_follow=0&show_switched_tooltip=0&show_podcast_settings=0&show_community_review_changes=0&show_community_rollback=0&show_follower_visibility_disclosure=0 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizzie-claesson-2926636/?originalSubdomain=se Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnx8B006LcMp1w8JM2MBKVw/videos Webpage: www.brighterleaders.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi, and welcome once again to unstoppable mindset. Wow, we are in a new year. And we get to interview I think a very interesting person today, Lizzie Claesson, who is an author, she has a think a lot of interesting things to talk to us about. She has a unique understanding. She says about the pressures of CEOs and others. She's the founder of a company called brighter leaders. And we're gonna get to all of that. My gosh, has a lot to talk about today. But anyway, Lizzie, thanks very much for joining us on unstoppable mindset and for being here. Lizzie Claesson ** 01:58 Thank you, Michael. I'm really thrilled to be a guest in your podcast. Thank you. Michael Hingson ** 02:03 Well, I appreciate you being here and taking the time to talk with us. Let's start. I love to start this way. Let's start maybe by talking about the early Lizzie growing up and all that sort of stuff to give people a little bit of knowledge about you. Lizzie Claesson ** 02:19 Absolutely. So I was born and raised in Buenos Aires in Argentina, where I still have my family except for my sister. I have just one sister two years younger, and she moved to California to Novato 15 years ago. And that's where she lives with her family. Michael Hingson ** 02:38 So she lives in Novato, California. Lizzie Claesson ** 02:40 Yeah, that's right. Michael Hingson ** 02:42 Where do you know where she lives in Novato? Lizzie Claesson ** 02:46 I don't know what the area's called. No, I Michael Hingson ** 02:48 lived. I lived in Novato for 12 years. That's why I asked. Oh, yeah, I Lizzie Claesson ** 02:53 remember you mentioned that. I think it was not far from where you live. When I looked in the, in the Maps and Google Maps, I think I recognize the area. Michael Hingson ** 03:04 So she moved to the panel, it Lizzie Claesson ** 03:07 didn't often matter. And both of us we had we had a kind of a little dip different kinds of education because we didn't go to like a typical Argentinian school, but we went to Scottish school in Argentina. So our education was was in English. And part of it in Spanish, of course, also. And that's what I got, like some kind of exposure to what Europe is anything that has to do with Europe. So to be honest, I really from from quite a young age, I was fantasizing of some time in my life living in Europe. And even though I was working for later on in life for companies that had offices all over the world, in the US and Europe, of course, the chance never arise through work. But it finally arrives through my husband, who is Swedish. And we met in in Michigan in an arbor in the States. And that was 26 years ago. And we got married like after a year. And then we decided that we would like to try to live in Sweden to start with, and if it worked, we will stay there otherwise we would move to another country. And here I've been for the last 25 years. So it has worked. Michael Hingson ** 04:33 It's stuck. And there you are. Well, that's that's pretty cool. Well, what brought him to Ann Arbor? Lizzie Claesson ** 04:41 Well, he was working for a company, Swedish company that had its headquarters near Michigan's University. They were working with very advanced statistical models to try to understand and improve customer satisfaction customer employee satisfaction. And at the time, I was working as a management consultant for an Argentine company before that I had been working for Accenture. And they thought that maybe what this Swedish company was doing could be interesting to look into and see if we could offer to our clients in Argentina. So they sent me to the states to see what could be offered in Argentina. And it turned out, but I came back a couple of months later, I told my, my boss, well, you know, I'm moving. Michael Hingson ** 05:37 Well, so one of the things that that the company brought was your husband to you? Lizzie Claesson ** 05:42 Yeah. See, there you go from the company? Michael Hingson ** 05:46 Yeah. Well, that's cool. Well, yeah. So where did you go to college, Lizzie Claesson ** 05:52 when I went to college in Argentina, so I have my business in my master in business. And then, during my career, I've been, I've been going different kinds of, of course, it's almost not every year, but for the last 15 years, almost one course per year, in different topics. Mainly what I'm specialized in now, which is leadership, leadership, and helping, helping leaders become the best version of themselves and giving them the right tools for that. So I'm doing a lot recently, I've been doing a lot within neuroscience, understanding how the brain works, and how we can use that knowledge in order to progress both as leaders and on a personal level. Michael Hingson ** 06:41 You talk about understanding the unique pressures that leaders, CEOs, HR professionals, and so on interesting combination of, of people, but you talk about understanding and having a keen understanding of that. Tell me more about that. How did you get that understanding? Or why do you feel you have that? Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 07:02 I could maybe start by telling you how I got the interest. Oh, God, I yeah, I would say it started early in the career because when I was working as a management consultant, still in Argentina, I met, of course, many leaders, I was also doing trainings for leaders and employees. And I started realizing that there were a couple of things, a couple of challenges that were brought up quite consistently, independently of the industry, or the size of the company, or what the company was doing, or, or what the manager or the leader was, the the actual role, what they were doing. And this couple of things I noticed later on in my career kept coming up. So that's why I developed this interest, I realized that, okay, I see that CEO, level executives and HR professionals are facing this kind of issues, challenges in their leadership and with their teams, what could be done to help them. And that's what I've been doing the last couple of years, especially with, with my company, brighter leaders, to try to give this professionals all the support and the tools and understanding so that when they feel a little bit unstuck, they feel stuck in their challenges, they might easily more easily get unstuck. Michael Hingson ** 08:33 So tell me a little bit more about kind of what you noticed that was going across all industries in terms of the challenges they were having. Lizzie Claesson ** 08:44 Yeah, one of the things was communication. Many times, leaders felt they were talking a lot with their employees and with their teams. Nevertheless, there was some kind of feedback from employees that leaders were not as clear as they wanted them to be, or that they didn't get as much feedback as they wanted them to give. When talking to these levers, they said, Well, I really don't know what else to do. I'm giving all the feedback I can, I'm being as clear as I can. So that's what I that's when I got the interest to learn more about communication. And I want I did a course to become extended this practitioner and extended this very shortly is understanding the different different communication and behavioral styles in order to better adapt communication to the receiver. And this doesn't mean that you need to become a different person. It only means that you can use the strengths you have in your wrong communication and apply them in at the right moment with the right person to have a better match in the communication. So this Just one of the challenges that keeps coming on even today in my meetings with with leaders. Another challenge that keeps coming up is the very old prolly issue of prioritization and time management. People complaining that time is not enough, there's so much to do. It's difficult to prioritize, everything is important, everything needs to be done. And especially in certain organizational cultures, where there is a tendency to change goals very fastly. Maybe the rest of the organization doesn't really hand hang along with the rapid changes in goals. And sometimes I hear teams mentioning that, you know, this is what we were working for last month, but this month, we don't know, because it changes all the time. So that is one another of the challenges that arises. I would say a third challenge. And this is also something that I've been working more and more in the last years is either leaders that themselves feel that they're not at the level of performance that they once were, or leaders that have someone in their team that are not at the level of performance, and they need, they need help. First of all, understanding why is this so what is the real cause of this underperformance because, as I've been doing in the series of underperformance, both on LinkedIn, in my articles, there might be many different causes, and how you best lead these people underperforming and how you help them get out of underperformance depends very much on what the cause is. Michael Hingson ** 11:48 Do you find that sometimes there really isn't underperformance? It's a perception more than a reality. Lizzie Claesson ** 11:58 Perceptions play a very big part in it. Because the truth is that the way we see things, the way we see the world has very much to do with what kind of mental filters we have, what kind of experiences we've had in the past that makes us frame things in a certain way, or give a certain meaning to the things we're seeing, observing. So I say that we have, we have two set of, of eyes, we have the physical eyes, which are the organs from which the images come in. But then we have the eyes of our mind. And what's coming in through our physical eyes is not always what's kind of into the eyes of, of our mind, because we might, it's like, you know, someone is looking at the scenery. And one may feel peacefulness and calmness and the person next to you is watching exactly the same scenery and might feel restless, and boredom. So this is what I mean to say that perception as you as you brought up, Michael is the very important part of it is important to understand. That's why neuroscience is so interesting to me to understand what meaning are we giving to things. So underperformance if we see it in a corporate scenario, if people are expected to achieve certain KPIs, key performance indicators, for instance, imagine a certain number of sales or a certain number in marketing a certain number of lead generations or in finance a certain number of cost efficiency, and they're not reaching them. That's very objective. So it's not perceptions, it's very objective. But what is causing that that might be affected by perception? Definitely. Michael Hingson ** 13:42 About the whole concept of the key performance indicators, though, in terms of somebody says, These are the indicators, this is what has to be achieved? And do you find from time to time that perhaps the KPIs themselves are not realistic? And how do you deal with that? Lizzie Claesson ** 14:01 Yeah, that's, that's an interesting question. Depending on what kind of industry it is, it could be an industry that normally has grown at a certain pace and then for different reasons, could be market reasons, there is a little bit of stagnation. But then of course, you have the the shareholders and different stakeholders that will be expecting that same rate of growth, but the market looks completely different. Or a new technology in the market that becomes a game changer, those that are not fast enough to to apply that new technology will not be able to grow as fast. So sometimes the the KPIs might be not in line with what is possible. However, what I notice is that much of the work I do for instance, I try to help leaders achieve those KPIs but not working directly, or firstly, for the KPIs in mind, are working more with themselves, seeing what kind of presumptions or assumptions they have, what kind of limiting beliefs they have, that might be in the way for them to be able to think out of the box. And no matter what the market situation is, find new ways of doing things so that they can reach those KPIs that have been set up by top management. Michael Hingson ** 15:35 Yeah, and it's a challenge all the way around. And going back to the first thing you were talking about, people hearing and talking to, and my immediate thought was, you talk about leaders talking to the people who they work with, and so on. But what I hear you saying is, oftentimes, they're not really communicating. How do you address that? Well, Lizzie Claesson ** 16:00 the first thing is helping whoever is in that situation to increase your level of awareness, because it's difficult to change, or what we are unaware of what we cannot see what we don't know. So working with awareness is, for me, always a first step. And once once the awareness is reached, okay, the eye aware is I work with an intention before going to move to an action, okay, we know this, let's act before acting, I like them finding an intention, which will motivate them for the third step, which is action taking. So So where's awareness, then creating the intention that will motivate them, and then finding an action. And that action, by no means needs to be something very big, it could be something really small, we talk about baby steps, and I like that, because rather have many small baby steps, that, you know, they're going to take in the right direction, but having big steps that might be too big for what you can handle, and then you have a setback, you need to redo, which takes more time or energy might be also a little bit demotivating. Michael Hingson ** 17:20 Yeah, because you really don't know how to deal with it. Whereas if you're guided into it slowly, then that makes certainly a good amount of sense to, to help guide and so on. So tell me a little bit about your business and how that got started. And why you you left working for industry to start your own business? Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 17:44 I never thought that I would be working in my own company. Because I've been working for big corporations almost the most of my career, and I really liked it, you know, whatever everyone says it's you have, you have all the all the strengths of being backed by by a big name, the process is being in place and the resources being there. The interactions with people, and especially if it's a company that that works with, with different markets across the globe, you know, it's it's an amazing experience traveling, as I did for many years, you know, to many, many different countries and learning a lot about different cultures. So so it was not really something that I was longing to. And it's not that I left recuperation because I was tired of it. It was mainly during the time I have four kids. So here in Sweden, we have amazing possibility to be at home with the kids for quite a long time. So I was at home with the first three kids for seven years. And it was a natural step for me because it's all you know, accepted in Sweden, you have a kid and then the social system supports that you may be at home for a long while. And it's in us very positive that small children should be at home with at least one of their parents. So during those seven years, I had enough time to reevaluate what was really important in my life. And I went from being someone that could wake up at five in the morning, drive to the airport, travel to another country work for two days, take the late plane at 10am be back at home very late on the next morning very early. Back in the office again, I went I went from that kind of life into a life where I was at the very slow pace of having you know small children at home. But even though it's demanding in a different way, you can very much set the pace yourself. And it gives me the possibility to reflect on what was really important for me in life. And I realized that being a mother and knowing that now I have children I mean other people Other individuals I'm responsible for, brought something new in my life. And as I was thinking, Now, it's, you know, after seven years now, now it's time to go back to work, I was not as thrilled to go back to that. You may call it the rat race. So, instead of going back to a big operation, I decided to start working for a very small company, not far from home, where I could do my job. And when the job was done, I could go home, and not worry about it. And that was a game changer for me, because it gave me the flexibility of being able to be very present with my children while they were small, and while they were growing, but at the same time, working and taking on responsibilities. And then I got pregnant again, with the fourth and the last child and I was at home again, two years. Once again, I had the chance to think what is it I want to do with my life, both professional and professional on a personal level. And the chance came for me to meet other parents, which is quite useful here in Sweden, you have all this, mums, mainly mums, okay? Mums, communities with more more children. And I, I was in this community where moms were talking about child education, very, very young ages, you know, like 334 years old. And we realized that we share, we have some values, some parenting values in common. And we decided to do something very crazy. And that was, we decided to start our own preschool for little children, without having any experience at all, in the industry. And I don't know, I think they liked my my leadership, style and my skills. So they put me as leader of this project. And we started a company, and then they wanted me to be the CEO. And then the preschool was up and running. And they wanted me to be the head of the preschool. And then I started going different pedagogical courses to understand more how we could give this little children the best possible start in life. And that's what I did for a couple of years. And my youngest son was in this preschool called the kids garden. And that preschool still exists not far from home. And he went there his all the years before starting school. So this was kind of very, very different. And once he started school again, and I apologize, I'm being very long about this, I hope it's not boring people with this story. But I hope they find it inspiring in terms of you know, that if you really want to do something, you can do it. And you don't need to do it alone, you can find help from other people who support you in order to do it. And when he started school, I realized, you know, my calling was not to be at the preschool with the little children, my calling was to do something different. And by chance through through LinkedIn, I met a leadership developer, and she asked me if I wanted to be part of their network. She said, in order to do that, then you will need to start your own company. And I thought, Okay, why not? I started a preschool why not start out quite young company, what can go wrong? What's the worst thing that can happen? And this is also something that I teach my clients, you know, don't be so afraid, sometimes and live, that's the way it is, you know, it has it can turn very, very fast. So don't assume that it's going to go wrong, assume it's gonna go right. And when it goes wrong, then you solve it. And I started my own company, and that was my way into being an entrepreneur. Michael Hingson ** 24:03 So when did you actually start brighter leaders? And that was Lizzie Claesson ** 24:07 six, seven years ago. Michael Hingson ** 24:10 Wow. So you've you've been doing it for a while? How do you look for when so and the company primarily as a coaching company? Yeah. Lizzie Claesson ** 24:20 primarily as a coaching company. Definitely. Michael Hingson ** 24:24 How do you tailor and customize what you do, then for for each of the people who you have as clients who engage you and so on, how does all that work? Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 24:37 I love that you asked this question because it definitely is a tailoring for each particular, not company, but individual, each person that I coach and even when I coach teams, each individual is coached in a different way. So what I do is that I have my process and it's all based from my trademark system called MSC and that stands for mindset, skills, and environment. So I have, I have this system, and then I have a process that I use, but what in how fast the process is moved and which parts of the process I use, and what tools are given an exactly what kind of conversations we're having, and how much I challenge or not, or at my understanding, or less understanding, not in the bad way, but more challenging. That depends very much on the person I have in front of me. And that is 100%. tailored. Michael Hingson ** 25:39 Which makes a lot of sense, because different people have different needs different reactions and come from different perspectives. Lizzie Claesson ** 25:47 Definitely. And I must say, I must say that I love it, because not one single person that I coach is like, for me, it's not like repetitive, you know, it's not Oh, no, I'm doing that again, or none of them are doing that, again, it's so inspiring. Because each person has you know, it's an all a whole different world. And their stories, even though even though the challenges might be the same, I always say your challenges are not unique, but you are unique. And for me, it's amazing to meet all these different amazing people, because to be honest, the people that come to me, they're not bad leaders, they're good leaders that want to be even better. Michael Hingson ** 26:32 So if we were to define what a leader is, what is a leader, Lizzie Claesson ** 26:36 for me, I literally is someone that's leading someone doesn't necessarily mean a manager, not someone that has like the format or the mandate to lead someone, but more is someone that's, that's leading another person helping another person develop, achieve their goals and dreams, be a part of a bigger picture and work together with other people collaborating with teamwork. Michael Hingson ** 27:10 So it's probably fair to say that leaders may not necessarily be managers, or bosses and bosses, may or may not necessarily be good leaders. Very, Lizzie Claesson ** 27:21 very well said. Yeah, it's, it Michael Hingson ** 27:24 is a it is a challenge and probably good leaders who are bosses, also, at least this is my view, recognize when their leadership style needs to let go and let somebody else lead in a particular situation? And they're smart enough to know that. Yeah, exactly. Which, which kind of makes it Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 27:50 no, I good leader is also there is a quite a big dose of humbleness. And that I like very much with the leaders I work with, that they can they have the humbleness of also admitting that, you know, I don't know this, or I would like to know more about this. And something I hear very often from, from the leaders I work with, is that I'm a good leader, but I'm not, I'm not done. I'm not complete, my journey isn't hasn't finished, you know, my journey is still to, to be developed. And I find this. So. So, so humble, so humble, and I like it very, very much. So I remind myself as well, you know, because as much as I teach my clients, different techniques, and how to use different tools I am learning all the time. So it's, it's very, it's very enriching, I would say, I think Michael Hingson ** 28:44 that's a very important concept. And it's one that I embrace, which is, we're learning all the time, I really enjoy doing this podcast because I feel I get to learn from everyone who comes on. And as I've told a number of people, I feel I'm not doing my job well, if I'm not learning at least as much as, as anyone else who listens to the podcast, and I really enjoy hearing different perspectives. And it helps me to be able to synthesize all that and to, to be able to take the time to think about it. And I think that's extremely important for anyone who is involved in interacting with anyone else to recognize that we're all students all the time. Really. Lizzie Claesson ** 29:27 Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, Michael Hingson ** 29:31 you have coached a number of people and so on. I'd be curious, do you have a story or can you talk about one particular instance where when you were really coaching you had a really memorable experience of where you helped people deal with key performance indicators or turnaround, whatever was occurring in what they were doing. Lizzie Claesson ** 29:57 Yeah. Most of the clients I work with not all of them, but most of the clients I work with, come to me because they feel maybe stuck in the current situation. They need help to get unstuck. So for me, it's very gratifying to see someone that's struggling, that comes with low motivation, low energy that once has had, has been very motivated them have had high levels of energy, but they're now struggling. And it moves me deeply. I've always had in me, wanting to help people, I've been doing that completely for free, in my private environments, my whole life very much through church and other organizations. So what's what's beautiful to see, and I have so many cases, but let me mention two of them. And I won't say any names, because I want to respect the privacy of these people. But I can tell you what they were, you know, the role where they were working. So one of them was, was the CEO of a small retail company. And he felt completely stuck and was suffering so much. And I could also see it in the body language, how they were suffering. And we work together. And just in a couple of months, he managed to achieve the KPIs. And this was one of the companies that I was mentioning earlier, that changed their KPIs all the time. So one month is more important than next month, the others are important. But he decided, you know, he was smart enough to decide, I will work with this KPI, this particular KPI, I will work intensively, even if they change it, I will work intensively because this KPI can affect the profitability of the company. And I want this company to be very profitable. So that's what he did, while maybe trying to balance the rest of the KPIs. And in just a couple of months, his level of energy increase his motivation increase, he got unstuck, he was feeling happy, again, he was feeling and all the very, very self secured. And that's what helped him as well make very, very smart decisions and the right decisions for the company and his team. All of his employees turned around the company just a couple of months. Michael Hingson ** 32:19 So that was all because he decided to just commit to doing work with one KPI or what did you do to make that success? Happy? Yeah. Lizzie Claesson ** 32:29 Yeah, to make that's one of the things was on a business level he was he decided to go with one KPI. On the personal level, we worked a lot with his self self confidence with understanding that he had some limiting beliefs and identify them. So we work as I mentioned before, having awareness of what limiting beliefs, were finding an intention, what you want to do with that knowledge, and taking concrete action, small steps. And in that way, he started learning a lot of things about himself, and his certain finding, finding back that that guiding store that he had had within himself, but that was a little bit covered by fears and insecurities and assumptions and different limiting beliefs. Michael Hingson ** 33:22 Okay, you said you had a second story? Lizzie Claesson ** 33:25 Yeah, exactly. The second story, it's about a woman working as a marketing manager that she felt in, in an international company. And she she felt very frustrated, because she felt she was not being recognized for her hard work. And she felt she was not advancing in her career. And this was very demotivating for her. And she was also suffering from this. And we work together. And we did a lot of work in terms of communication. So that's why I believe that using the different kinds of models and tools, but the one that I that I work with, I like it very much, because it's very simple. It's easy to understand, and is very, very practical to use. And once you understanding and practice it, it's quite easy. And she did such a great work, which was very open to trying new things and testing. So she worked with, with learning more about this tool and how it worked in order to communicate better both with her direct boss, which was the marketing director of the company, but also with management team, and with her own team, and even with other colleagues within the company, and not only in the same country. This was both cases were in Swedish in Sweden. The first case was Swedish person. The second case, she was working in Sweden, but she was Italian. She was working cross culturally, which of course, makes communication a little bit more challenging. And as well in, in just a couple of months, she completely turned around her situation from being unhappy. feeling very frustrated about different things at work, she started feeling happiness again, and feeling that things at work were working well, she was communicating better, she was getting the the recognition that she, she she was lacking. And that was, that was so amazing to see. I was also happy for her and sealer. Michael Hingson ** 35:38 If you can describe it, what was the basic tool? You said there was a simple tool you used? Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 35:45 it's the tool I work with is called extended test. And there are, as I say, different tools to work with communication. But I find this one really easy because it it starts with you start diving into the tool, just seeing four different main communication styles. Understanding that there are no no bad or good styles, or styles have strengths and all styles. If they are overused, they have negative backsides. And also understanding that everyone is using all the sides all the time, but creating the awareness, where do I have my strengths, because even if one uses the four styles all the time, some styles might come easier easily to a certain person, because there are certain certain what would say core qualities that we are born with them. In terms of communication, of course, we can learn to develop some other styles that we don't normally use as much. So understanding as I say, they're not good about style. It's not about personality, it's about communication, we use all the styles. And then understanding, as I said, you start diving into the tool, looking at four styles, just to make it simple and easy. But then when you're using the tool in in all its its possibilities, when you're working with 14 different combinations of sites in a beautiful map, that's very, very visual. So it's easy to use. And it makes it easier to understand where if I have a challenge with someone, where can I place this person in the map at that certain point in that specific communication? So it's not about labeling people that there's some that is this way or the other, but just understanding in that specific situation, that specific conversation, what style were they using? What combination? And if this situation presents again, how could I need this kind of communication in a way that I match their level of, of action taking and energy and listening? And analyzing? Emotions, you know, what are the different aspects without becoming another person just being myself and using my strengths? So that I'm always in a position where having these conversations is not taking energy? Michael Hingson ** 38:15 And the tool is called what extended? Disc? Lizzie Claesson ** 38:18 Disc? di s? C? Yeah, got it. Michael Hingson ** 38:21 Okay, cool. You've said something that really prompts me to be curious about an idea. You talk about the challenges that people have faced, that you help them overcome, and so on, and talk about humility and so on? Do you find that the challenges are pretty universal across countries? Or do you find that you find you, you observe different challenges from different countries and so on? And what prompted the question was you talked about your own life where you had the opportunity to be at home with children and so on, and you chose to do that. But I can see in places like even here in the US people are going well, I've got to really focus on my career. I don't have time to, to do this or that. Do you? Do you find that a lot of conditions are different from country to country? Or is it really pretty similar across borders? Lizzie Claesson ** 39:22 My humble opinion, and some people might think differently, and I completely respect that. But from my life experience, I'm over 50 I see that it's not about countries. It's it's about a combination of values, priorities, vision, and the courage to do what needs to be done even when you're afraid even when you don't know. Because the truth is that I think the stakes is the biggest country where you have homeschooling. So people having homeschooling they're not thinking about professional career in that way. They're thinking about how can I give my children what they believe is the best schooling them at home. Now, I'm not saying homeschooling is the best, but I'm saying that being that sobic in the States, I don't remember how much I think it's 1 million families in the states doing this. So it's possible if someone wants not to focus on career or focus in, or you always say, What makes you what makes you happy? What makes you tick? What if you would look back into your life? What is it you don't want to regret? Don't wait until tomorrow. You know, maybe tomorrow doesn't come for you. Maybe things change is someone, someone close to you gets very sick. And suddenly your whole life changes around. So don't wait until tomorrow do today. What you what you can do? I think there, there might be a lot of fears going on, at a personal level. So they have nothing to do with companies. I mean, everyone we all have, I have fears as well, of course. But some, some people are not not willing, or they don't know or they don't have the tools to face those fears, seeing them in the eye and see if they are real. Or it was just our brain once again, because I I've taken these courses in neuroscience that I know that what a brain does is it uses fears from the past and extrapolates them and creates a future that might not at all. Be the future that will you will be faced with Michael Hingson ** 41:35 and usually isn't know, how do you help people overcome or learn to control their fears? That's a subject that isn't fascinating for me. And I realized during the pandemic that I talked for years about escaping from the World Trade Center, and not being afraid, but never really taught anyone how to learn to control their fears and not be as I call it being blinded by fear or overwhelmed by fear. How do you how do you and and I've written a book, by the way that will be out next year about that. But how do you help people? Or how do you teach people? Or what do you teach people to overcome fears and learn more to control them and put them in perspective? Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 42:25 well, firstly, I would like to say I would love to read your book when it comes out, because it's a very interesting subject. And I write about this in, in my book, from suffering to surfing, how successfully Michael Hingson ** 42:39 lovely a title. Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 42:41 thank you. This book was number one on Amazon, new release and leadership and management, and you have a chapter about using your fears to feel and your activity. So basically, it's about guiding clients. And this needs to be done in a professional way, and in a very safe way. Because fears, you know, it's like an iceberg, you first see the top of it, and then you start getting deeper, and it can be quite big. So you can never leave someone with opening, opening up and door a box and then just leaving them, you need to guide them all the way. So you make sure that they know what to do with whatever they find. And then we never pushing, never pushing to, for people to open up more that they desire or to talk about something more than they really want. Which is which is really important. Because being in a situation as I am and every coach in the world is that you create a lot of trust, that trust needs to be taken care of, in a very professional way, and always having the person the person's best interest. Number one, but having that said, the way I do it is I help people with with different NLP techniques. And B is Neuro Linguistic Programming, understanding how our brain is programmed, and how we see the world how we frame things, to first identify their fears. And then ask themselves, is this true? You're afraid about this? Is this true? This fear? What is the possibility of this happening? And then I do a very simple exercise when they put a number from one to five, where five is there's a very high possibility of this being true. And there's a very high possibility of this happening. That's a five. So we only focus on those kinds of fears. Anything that's a one, two or three, we say well, forget it. Forget it. And maybe we'll write them and then we I ask clients to break, tear or tear the paper apart and just throw it away in a symbolic way to say that fears you don't. You're not taking hold on me. anymore. And then the fears that are big fears for for the person, what we do is that we try to refrain them. Okay, what is it in this fear that can be used as fuel that can be used in a positive way. And this process, how long it takes depends very much on the kind of person that kind of fear, the kind of openness they have the kind of readiness they have. But I would say that, in not more than two months, people feel, this is what my clients tell me that they are not afraid of that anymore. And then, of course, it's something we need to keep working on, for instance, with affirmations, with vision boards, different tools in order to keep this working for them, because it's the programming in the brain. So fears, fears really don't exist, they don't exist, they're only a programming in the brain. And the only place fears live, it's in the mind. Michael Hingson ** 46:06 Do you encourage people to take time every day to just introspect or just stop and let let things slow down, whether even it be for me, I like to do it at the end of the day. But I like to analyze what happened in the course of the day and try to put things in perspective that way. And even when things don't necessarily go well. Get to look at why didn't they go? Well, what do I learn from that? That kind of thing? Lizzie Claesson ** 46:33 Yeah, I love what you're saying. And, yes, this is something that I encourage my clients to do as well I find it, it's very useful, just to slow down, reflect. And when they do, so I always tell them, do it from a neutral place, don't blame yourself, or shame yourself or, or judge yourself, just do it for a neutral place from a place of love. Michael Hingson ** 46:57 Yeah. And it also sometimes gets back to this whole idea of humility. Recognize that you're not the only person and the only game in town. And I think it's, it's something that we we often don't think enough about that we are part of a community. And it's great to have a team as opposed to just saying it's all about me. Lizzie Claesson ** 47:24 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's something very powerful as well, to get past the fears is to focus more on the solutions than on the problem. Michael Hingson ** 47:36 Right. And sometimes, you may not know the solution, but you can certainly let your brain work on it if you give your brain the opportunity to do that. And you can also, of course, and should ask other people's wisdom and knowledge to help. Lizzie Claesson ** 47:56 Yes, the more you do this reflection exercises, as you say, if you do it daily, it's an amazing advantage. Because then you give your brain the necessary rest to because the brain is very creative, if you give the brain the time. So you give by doing this, you give the brain this pace, to think out of the box to be creative to find solutions. I remember once being coached, Mike, my coach asked me Okay, so what's the solution for that? And I said, I don't know. And then he asked me well, but if you didn't know, what would that be? Something happened in my brain. And suddenly I came up with a possible solution. Michael Hingson ** 48:39 Yeah, you never know what's going to trigger. You're coming up with what you need at the right time. Yeah. Which is, which is pretty cool. Well, you have been coaching for a while now. What kind of advice would you give to people who are interested in coaching, maybe doing international coaching and so on? What kind of thoughts and advice and suggestions do you have to help people start down that path? Lizzie Claesson ** 49:08 Yeah. From what I see in my clients, a lot of it is about the personal chemistry. So find, find someone have an exploratory exploratory call to start with and see if you feel that, that chemistry if you feel understood, if you feel that they are challenge you at the right level, because a little bit of challenging is important. I used to say to my clients, now I'm gonna give you some hard love. So it comes from a place of love, but it's, it's challenging, because without challenge, you know, there's not going to be any any change. So it's good to have someone that at certain point will be challenging you it will, it will feel a little bit uncomfortable, it will feel a little bit hard because change, change in itself implies you know, coming out of your comfort zone. So that's what I would say, it's good to have the chemistry. But make sure also that some of that will help you get out of the comfort zone, because that's where you will find growth in the comfort zone, you're not going to find the growth. And some people I heard was on a webinar during the pandemic, that that we're seeing some people are sitting on a nail, and they're very, very uncomfortable. But they're not uncomfortable enough to do something about it. That's why you need that coach to make you realize how uncomfortable that is so that you make that change. Michael Hingson ** 50:35 Do you think that people inherently just don't like change and like comfort zones? Or do you think that's something that maybe as much as anything we're taught? We're taught by people not to like change? Well, I mean, we hear people say, all the time changes all around us and all that, but yet, we don't seem to like change. Is that something that we've learned? And we've grown up? Because people have taught us to think that way? Or do you think it's really more inbred in our brain? From birth? Yeah, Lizzie Claesson ** 51:07 it's an it's a good question. And I'm not an expert in neuroscience, but I'm very interested in it. So as I said, I took a couple of courses, the the way the brain is wired, makes it difficult for us to change because the the brains, two basic functions are to keep us alive, and to save energy. And in order to save energy, what the brain does is that it tries to optimize as much as possible as it can. So maybe you don't think about it, but you probably already start brushing your teeth, starting the same way in the mouth, or you start putting on your shirt, it's always the same hand or you start with you walking or with with the same foot, you know, things like that, you're not thinking about it, but the brain has optimized it to save energy. So anything that means change means that you're going to do something that's going outside from that automatic equitisation. And the brain doesn't like that, because that would take energy. So our brains are wired like that. So it's not our fault in a certain way. That's why change is difficult. And what why the suggestion is that, whenever you want to create change, that's the reason also why have small baby steps is make it so small, so small that it comes like a little bit below the radar of the brain. So it's not going to put any, any difficulties in it. You know how many people go on diets, for instance, and they do it for a while after the while they fall back into their old habits? Because that's the way the brain is wired. Michael Hingson ** 52:41 And also, though, it seems to me, because I've thought a lot about this whole idea of change. But it seems to me that what you say is true at the same time, when we deal with change. Part of our problem was we don't even want to think about change. And so for the people who do think about change, and who think about it, I realized my brain has made something pretty automatic. But might there be a better way? Would it be better if I brush my teeth a different way? Those people are maybe very unusual, but they're the ones who may be more open to the concept of change? Lizzie Claesson ** 53:21 Yeah, for me, in business, what I see is visionary, visionary leaders are those kinds of leaders that are willing to change things all the time. They're not afraid of change, and they see change as something positive. On the contrary, if things don't change for a long while, they get bored, or they they try to create change, because no, that's the way they like it. And as you say it's a low percentage of the world's population. I Michael Hingson ** 53:49 think the issue though, is not so much necessarily. You've got to change just to change. But you should at least think about change and change when it makes sense to do it. Because I know some people who talk about change, and are always changing something. Well, let's try this, rather than thinking it through and thinking about the ramifications of change. And so again, the people who think about change, and who really analyze it, and then create change, when it makes sense to do and their brains have thought it through that makes a lot more sense than just changing to change. Yeah, I agree. Which is, you know, something that's sensible. So you've written from suffering to surfing How did you come up with that title? Lizzie Claesson ** 54:36 Well, because I serve myself and I realize I realize some sometimes when you're out there surfing in my field a bit like a suffering it's like you against the elements of nature, the wind and the water and the temperature. So, so I that's the way I felt, you know, I don't know when I came up with a name it just happened that I met made that association. And I realized that it's not only when I'm out in the water, but it's also in different situations in life. And you can go from suffering. Certainly when I say you know, your, you have your board there, and you have this huge waves and you're holding on to the board on Sunday, you're being turned around, by the way, particularly go from that, which is the suffering into suddenly, you're setting on the board, and everything is so smooth and beautiful. And you're surfing. Michael Hingson ** 55:31 What other books have you written? Because I know you've written one. Yeah, I've Lizzie Claesson ** 55:35 written two other books that are only on their ebooks there, they haven't been made as copy books. One is called Seven actionable strategies to manage underperformance, which is a book that includes the seven highest top top seven reasons for underperformance and concrete strategies of how you can can handle that a guide for managers. And this book is being offered for free. So if anyone listening would like a copy, just get in touch with me, I will, I will send you the PDF, the other book, it's not for free. But we can send you the two first chapters for free. And it's called Stop worrying about how to level up your leadership and be in the best shape of your career. And that's a book that's very, very practical with exercises to do and tips. If you want to develop your leadership a little bit like do it yourself. Michael Hingson ** 56:42 Well, that brings up the question if people want to reach out to you, whether it's to get the books or material or to explore, maybe working with you and letting you be their coach, how do they do that? Well, the Lizzie Claesson ** 56:57 the best thing would be just to go to a web page, which is www dot bright leaders.com. And then you can see all the different ways to get in touch with us. And there's a lot of material you can download completely for free. You have my email address or my phone number. So it will be really easy. Otherwise you can find me as Lizzie Claesson on all social medias. So just let me just spell that Facebook. Yeah, absolutely. That would be L I Z Z I E. On my last name is C L A E S S O N Michael Hingson ** 57:33 Lizzie Claesson? Great. Well, I want to thank you for taking the time to be here. And I love the suggestions and thoughts that you've given us a lot to think about. And I hope people will download your books and that they will reach out to you and I assume that you do coach worldwide? Yes, I do. So hopefully people will reach out to you and, and and explore talking with you and learning from you. Clearly you have demonstrated that you are as unstoppable as can be been you've, you've dealt with a lot of things in very positive ways. And I love that, and you know how to do that. Lizzie Claesson ** 58:13 It's it's been it's been amazing having this conversation with you. And I love the way you ask. You make it very easy to talk I can't believe we have been talking for for an hour. I know really, really fast. I Michael Hingson ** 58:28 was just checking that out. And that's what I saw too. Well, I want to thank you. And I want to thank all of you for listening and I hope that the Time passes quickly for you. But go back and listen to this one again, it's think very relevant and worth doing. I really appreciate you taking the time to be with us today. Wherever you are listening to us. I'd appreciate your comments and your thoughts and we especially would love it if you'd give us a five star review. So please give an unstoppable mindset five star review to us. Also, you are welcome to reach out to me and contact me two ways to do that. One is you can email me at Michael m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And Michael Hingson is m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com/podcast. And I as I also love to ask him Lizzie, I'll say it to you as well. If you know if anyone knows of anyone who you think we ought to have as a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know we're always looking for more people to chat with and have conversations with. It's fun. I'm prejudiced, I get to learn from it. But I also enjoy having people on who are willing to show just how unstoppable we all really can be and really are. So once again, though, Lizzie, I really appreciate you being here and I want to thank you again for taking the time. Lizzie Claesson ** 59:59 Thank you, Michael, thank you very much. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:05 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.