375: Imposter syndrome with Lea Ann Slotkin

The Art of Living Big | Subconscious | NLP | Mindset

Todays episode Betsy chats with her friend Lea Ann Slotkin. Lea Ann is a successful artist who also coaches creatives to clear out imposter syndrome and show up authentically.
You can find Lea Ann on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/leaannslotkin/ and also listen to her podcast, Mind Over Medium!

Transcription:

Betsy [00:00:05]:
Welcome to the art of living big podcast. My name is Betsy Paik. I’m an author, a speaker, and a trainer of NLP and hypnotherapy, and I’m focused on helping you understand and design your life with the power of the subconscious. This podcast is designed to help you think differently about what could be possible for your life. Now let’s go live big. All right. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show today.

Betsy [00:00:35]:
Welcome to the art of living big. I’m excited today because I have a friend with me, and I’m going to tell you the story of why we’re doing this show, although I’ve wanted to have her on the show for a long time because I think it’s going to be insightful. I think you’ve got a lot of things to share. So today I have my friend, Leanne Slotkin. Hey, Leanne.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:00:54]:
Hi. Thanks for having me.

Betsy [00:00:56]:
Yeah, I’m excited to have you here. I feel like. May I say this? We met maybe a year ago.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:01:04]:
Yeah, probably. Yeah.

Betsy [00:01:06]:
I think I had just moved into my house.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:01:08]:
Yeah, you had.

Betsy [00:01:10]:
And you stumbled upon my. The podcast or just my instagram?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:01:15]:
I Instagram stalked you.

Betsy [00:01:16]:
Yes.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:01:17]:
And then.

Betsy [00:01:18]:
And then we lived, like, right down the street from each other, and now we’re BFF’s, so it’s very fun. So I’m excited to have you on the show. It’s kind of fun if you found me from the show to be on the show.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:01:29]:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So, Maddox, so tell everybody a little.

Betsy [00:01:34]:
Bit about you and what you do.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:01:35]:
Yeah. Well, like you said, my name’s Leanne. I live in Atlanta. Well, actually, Decatur. And I’m an artist and a coach, and my. I have a whole, like, 20 plus year career in women’s fashion, have always done art on the side and transitioned to doing it full time about six years ago. And I’ve had some success. I’m always surprised when someone.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:01:59]:
I’m still surprised when someone buys my work. I find it astonishing, and I’m always so grateful. But my work is represented by a gallery in Atlanta, and I’ve had a lot of fun collaborations with brands like Serena and Lily, Carmax, Framebridge, all kinds of things. So I’m very fortunate. And then during the pandemic, I decided to get my coaching certification so I could help artists become business owners and actually have a profitable creative business. So those are the things that I do.

Betsy [00:02:32]:
I love it. Serena and Lily, that seems very fancy pants. Like, I remember when you told me that, I was like, ooh, I don’t know. Why is fancy pants, though? Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:02:45]:
You know, the gallery that I’m with in Atlanta has a lot of great connections, and so we have. I had the opportunity to submit my work for them monthly. And, like, they often have themes and a lot, like, when my theme, kind of what I’m known for, aligns, they’ll often pick up my work, and they do have a section online for original art.

Betsy [00:03:08]:
Okay, cool. What’s what? How would you define your art? What would you call it?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:03:12]:
Very nature inspired, floral, brightly colored, slightly abstracted.

Betsy [00:03:18]:
It’s like a little whimsical, I think.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:03:20]:
Yeah. Has a little whimsy to it.

Betsy [00:03:22]:
I really like it.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:03:24]:
It’s really good.

Betsy [00:03:27]:
Okay. So I got this message on Instagram from somebody that follows me, but I follow them, too, because when they started following me, I think it was years ago, but they’re so cool. Do you know when you, like, you’re like, I’m going to follow for the fashion, but I’m staying for the nail art. You know what I’m saying? So she messaged and said, I wonder if you have any resources, books, podcast episodes, videos, anything on something along the lines of becoming confident in our gifts and talents. So imposter syndrome adjacent, except I’m trying to believe in myself to even try going for my artistic dreams. And I have thoughts, imposter syndrome thoughts to share. But right off, I was like, oh, this is what. This is our moment.

Betsy [00:04:20]:
This is what we’ve been waiting for.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:04:22]:
This is what we’ve been waiting for.

Betsy [00:04:24]:
So I want to talk to you about this. So how do you think we should break this down? Down? Should we start, like, imposter syndrome and then talk a little bit about artistic? Because I think that’s a different side of it. But also, I have some thoughts to share.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:04:41]:
Yeah, I mean, I am ready to jump in wherever you want to start, because honestly, this is my wheelhouse, what I talk to people about all the time. This is what I coach artists on. So I will jump in wherever you lead.

Betsy [00:04:54]:
Okay. So here’s the only thing that I’ll say, because you’re really the expert here, but imposter syndrome is something that I have heard about forever, right? We’ve all heard about it. And I’ve always thought, I don’t really have that.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:05:10]:
I remember you, I think we were at coffee one time and you told me that, and I was like, what the. What are you talking about?

Betsy [00:05:16]:
How do you not have that?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:05:18]:
Right?

Betsy [00:05:19]:
But I. I do have to say, well, now that you know me and be totally honest. Do you think now, do you think maybe I have imposter syndrome?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:05:30]:
I think if we had, like, the Webster’s dictionary definition of what that meant verbatim. Yes, we all have it on some level. And I think maybe you’ve just done a ton of work on how. On being able to turn that volume down for yourself. So, I mean, I think from time to time, like, maybe in parenting or in relationships, you know, I think it can kind of be there.

Betsy [00:05:57]:
Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:05:58]:
I think when you are finally making a decision to put your art or something that comes from you out into the world, it can get real loud.

Betsy [00:06:08]:
So. Because what I was going to say was, I’ve always thought, I don’t have imposter syndrome. And then when I really started showing up on Instagram, which is not art, I just want to say there’s a component of it that’s creative. Right?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:06:20]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:06:21]:
That all of a sudden I was, like, vulnerable. Like, I’ve even done podcasts on the hate I get on the Internet, which now, looking back even to the. That show, which was just a couple months ago, I realized the hate I was getting on the Internet was the filter that I was feeding it through in my own head of, like, this is really vulnerable. I feel really exposed. So I’ve changed my tune. And I think that if you do enough outside the realm of where you feel really comfortable, which is how we grow, you should be doing that, then this is like a natural evolution of what shows up. I’ll say this one last thing, and then I will be quiet and let you go. And I think instead of then shaming yourself for it to go, oh, I have hit the threshold of what I thought was possible for me.

Betsy [00:07:20]:
How cool, right? Okay, so before we go any longer. Any farther, are you a swiftie?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:07:28]:
Yeah, I went to the concert.

Betsy [00:07:29]:
Didn’t you go?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:07:30]:
I think we went around the same time.

Betsy [00:07:32]:
No, I didn’t go. But you’re an official swifty. Okay, so we can continue. I like to ask everybody before we decide. Ok. Ok. So tell me what you think about this.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:07:46]:
Well, I think when we decide to do something new that takes us out of our comfort zone or out of our normal day to day routines, it can bring up a lot of stuff. I think that, coupled with a lot of the narratives out there about being someone who’s creative or an artist kind of. I’m not going to say this word. Exasperated exacerbates. Did I say that right?

Betsy [00:08:14]:
You did.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:08:14]:
Can exacerbate that because we have the starving artist trope. You know, you can’t make money. That’s not a real job.

Betsy [00:08:23]:
Why is that so prevalent?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:08:26]:
I think it’s a very old, old thing when, like, Richel Whiteman decided to be an artist, and they would have patrons who would support them, and I think it was some gatekeeping. And, I mean, I think there’s a million reasons why, like, you know, being. And it goes way back. So add that to wanting to do something that your heart is calling you to do. And I think, too, as women, I think we often, like, quiet, that noise that we have about expressing ourselves for whatever reason, and that adds to it. So it’s kind of like a recipe for some imposter syndrome to come up. So I’m not at all surprised to see this text that you had or hear this text that you had. And it’s perfectly normal.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:09:13]:
Totally normal.

Betsy [00:09:14]:
Do you think that imposter syndrome comes up when we go outside of what we thought was possible, or do you think it’s when we go outside of what we think other people think is possible for us? Do you know what I mean?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:09:30]:
Question. I totally know what you mean. I think that when you are. Well, I’ll just speak for myself.

Betsy [00:09:37]:
Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:09:37]:
I feel like when I am pushing up against some norms, either within my family of origin, my family, societal things, I can start feeling a little like, is this right? Is this okay? Which brings up doubt. And really, imposter syndrome is just a word for doubt.

Betsy [00:09:58]:
Self doubt?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:09:59]:
I think so. I think it’s a combination. But I do think that what will people think? Part of it really makes it loud.

Betsy [00:10:09]:
Yeah. Cause I’m feeling like, as we started talking, I was starting to feel like. I wonder if it’s more like. I think our identity is very geared towards. And by identity, I don’t mean roles. Right. Like, I don’t mean, like, I’m a mom. Like, our identity of, like, who we really think we are, deep down, is formed when we’re so young.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:10:32]:
Yes.

Betsy [00:10:33]:
But it’s formed from the interactions and information that we get from our parents and people close to us. Right. Or guiding us. And. And that if we can please them, we stay out of trouble. Right.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:10:49]:
Keeps us safe.

Betsy [00:10:50]:
It’s safe, yeah. And so if then we take that identity with us, and then that becomes who we are, which I think is true, then if we go outside of that, it’s like, I’m going to get in trouble. It, like, triggers the I’m going to get in trouble, like, something’s wrong. So how would you tell people to. What do we do. Tell me what to do.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:11:15]:
Tell you what to do.

Betsy [00:11:17]:
I just started fighting back with all the men on the Internet, and that kind of helped me, but I don’t know that that’s productive.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:11:24]:
Well, speaking. I’m going to speak to the creative person that, you know, reached out to you specifically. I think it is a okay to keep. Like, if you’re trying this thing, like, if you’re trying, it’s like when you’re. If you’re a parent and you’re having a baby, like, you have this thing growing inside of you, you have to take really good care of it and nurture it and take care of yourself. And then when you have your baby, you might not take it to the waffle house right away because, you know, you want to keep it safe and everything. It’s okay to treat it like that. Like it’s this precious thing that you don’t have to show anyone yet.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:12:01]:
You don’t have to announce to the world. You can keep it quiet until you have your sea legs. And I think that where people get a little skewed about this is thinking, oh, I have to post it on Internet, on instagram or wherever, because I want to make it a business. But before you can make it a business, you have to find your voice. You have to figure out your rhythms. Like, what do I like? What mediums do I like? So it’s a lot of trial and error. And I always like to tell my clients, it’s okay to do that just in your own studio without telling anyone about it. Like, maybe find some safe people to give some accurate feedback, but no one has to know about it until you’re ready for this thing to be out in the world.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:12:41]:
So I think that calms a lot of people down, because in my world, I see people equating it with being. Putting their work out there. I hear people say, I’m so afraid to put my work out there. And I think defining what that means for you and making that match the stage you are at in your process can really calm your nervous system down about it.

Betsy [00:13:03]:
And I think this is interesting, too, because if we have an identity, and this is who I’ve always been, but now I’m moving outside of that, me getting comfortable with that first makes a lot of sense before I tell other people that this is what I am.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:13:17]:
Absolutely. Yes.

Betsy [00:13:20]:
Like, coming out of the closet, like, I got to get comfortable with it first before.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:13:26]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:13:26]:
Like, it’s a shift in identity shift, I think. Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:13:30]:
Yeah. And especially, like, if you’ve heard your whole life, like, this isn’t a real business. Like, people don’t do this. It’s like, I think people have been told it’s frivolous or it’s not that important, or it’s just, like, something cute that you do, you know, all those things which if probably this person was like, you know, I really. I decided I’m going to law school. I don’t. I mean, I’m sure there would be some self doubt and overwhelm and fear, but I’m not sure it would feel the same.

Betsy [00:14:05]:
The pushback from people around you would be so much different.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:14:09]:
It would be very different. I mean, I still have people who are like, oh, well, that’s not a real job. Yeah, okay.

Betsy [00:14:17]:
You’re like, whatever, Serena, Lily died. You were like, I’ve done it. So then it brings it back to the whole thing of it’s really what other people think.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:14:31]:
Yeah. And what you’ve internalized, and then why.

Betsy [00:14:34]:
The heck do we care? I mean, I care. I know I care. I pretend I don’t care, but I know I care.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:14:40]:
I mean, that’s. I mean, I think. I mean, we want to know that our work is valued in some way.

Betsy [00:14:47]:
Yeah. And it’s important. I would think. And I’m not an artist, but projecting here. I would think that we all like to be agreed with. Right. And if you’re doing something and putting your heart and soul into it, you want to feel supported. And if you think it’s good, you want people to agree.

Betsy [00:15:08]:
Yeah. It’s really good.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:15:10]:
Yeah. You want it. You want that reflected back to you to validate.

Betsy [00:15:14]:
Can you be a bad artist and keep going?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:15:18]:
Oh, 100%.

Betsy [00:15:20]:
So then it has nothing. Sometimes I feel like this with politicians, right? Like, where I’m like, oh, my God. There. Nothing’s making sense. And not just political. I mean, not just presidential. Lots of different politicians. But I’m like, they got so much.

Betsy [00:15:35]:
Like, they just think they can do it, and now they’re probably gonna do it because they think they can do it. But it’s like, you can. Can you convince other people that you could do it the more you can? You think you can do it? Like, do you think that’s a. Am I getting too down the rabbit hole here? But do you see what I’m saying?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:15:55]:
I think so let me say it back to you to make sure I understand what you’re asking me. So you’re asking, can people who want to pursue something creative pursue it even though their skill level might not be awesome.

Betsy [00:16:12]:
Yes. I like how you said that instead. Even if they’re bad. Yeah, you’re right. If their skill level isn’t to a level that perhaps could be seen as marketable.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:16:23]:
Yes.

Betsy [00:16:23]:
And so then I went to the politician thing. Like, if we believe we can do it, other people will believe we could do it. So is it less about, I mean, we see a lot of art that’s like where you’re like, I could do that, although I know I really couldn’t. But do you know what I’m talking about?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:16:38]:
Yes. The beautiful thing about art is most people are drawn to doing this, but not because of some of. It’s because you might have a natural talent for it, but that can be learned. Like anyone can learn to draw. I truly believe that if you put the time and effort in, but it’s something about your desire, like your internal desire to create something so, and you can have that without ever really developing your skill, but it still brings you joy. That’s the beautiful part about art and creating creativity. Like, you can create, maybe no one ever sees it, but the process of creating brings you joy. And I think that is where all the value of creation lies.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:17:24]:
However, we’re in a society where that doesn’t really add up. It’s like if you can’t monetize it, then it’s not valuable. And that’s, I think, where things get kind of tangled up for artists and creative people.

Betsy [00:17:39]:
You think there’s like some sort of misogyny in there?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:17:43]:
Oh, yeah, for sure. And I, the male artists that I know, I mean, I, God bless them, they don’t, I mean, they don’t struggle with it as much as women, especially women who maybe are going to it, have always had the desire but didn’t pursue it and now are pursuing it later.

Betsy [00:18:01]:
There’s a lot of doubt when I think of art. So many times I think of paintings or I think of pottery, but art can be like sitting on your porch and knitting.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:18:13]:
Oh, for sure.

Betsy [00:18:14]:
Right. Art can be gardening, different things. So just as you’re listening, you may in fact be an artist, but never really identified in that way because it wasn’t something that is marketable, but really, like, we all have a creative piece to us.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:18:32]:
Absolutely.

Betsy [00:18:34]:
And I think, you know, for me, I’m not. I do, I do have my paint by number, as we’ve discussed.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:18:41]:
Yes. Well, you’re creative in a lot of ways.

Betsy [00:18:44]:
In a lot of ways. That’s what I was going to say. I mean, I feel like my podcast, in a lot of ways is creative. Or the stuff I do on Instagram, I mean, it feels creative. I like to do Instagram Stories because there’s a creative element to it, of.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:18:55]:
Well, in your house, how you decorate it and your passion and all of that. That’s super creative.

Betsy [00:19:00]:
Yeah, super creative. So then what’s the shift? What happens when people go, okay, I could do all that and that. Like, I have no, um, pushback to any of that, what we just said. Um, but then on the other side, when does it turn into, oh, this isn’t good enough?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:19:22]:
Well, I think there’s a few things in between there that are worth talking about, because really what you’re dealing with is just that feeling of being uncomfortable doing something new. And once you get your reps in, you get. Build a little bit of confidence over time. The imposter syndrome, what’s the word I’m looking for? Kind of a finish line keeps moving further out because you’re advancing in your skill level and maybe the success that you’ve seen. So it’s almost like something that kind of never goes away, but you’re able to manage it, which. That might not be great news, but.

Betsy [00:20:11]:
Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:20:13]:
I don’t think I answered your question. What was your question?

Betsy [00:20:16]:
I forget where we started, but when it turns from being, like, I can be creative and knit or do my paint by number or whatever, but there’s a point where it turns into brain garbage. And I don’t know. I mean, that’s different for everybody, I suppose, is really the answer for that. It just depends. And I would think that the more your nervous system is acclimated to doing things outside your comfort zone, no matter what it is. So I would think a way to also work on it would be to work on any kind of moving outside your comfort zone, whether that’s, like, with a. In a creative way, like a piece of fashion or, you know, doing your hair different or something, you could start to stretch the boundary of owning, of how you show up. And then I also think owning, because if I can own it, then nobody else has control over it, right? That’s how come when people get picked on, you’re like, just own it, right? Like, or, yeah, something’s going sideways.

Betsy [00:21:17]:
So the more I could own it that, like, this is totally who I am, and you could laugh at it or think whatever you want, but. But I own it, so the joke’s on you, right? I think there’s a part of, like, the more you can actually step into it, the less harm other people can do. I saw a TikTok last night, I think it was. And it was this woman who was. Was super cute, and she was like, hey, Marguerite, or whatever. And she was like, I went to high. I went to law school with you, and I heard that you send my tiktoks to a group chat, and you all make fun of me. But I just want you to know that in addition to getting my law degree, I show my fashion on TikTok, and now I’m in Paris on an all expense paid trip.

Betsy [00:22:07]:
Like, she was just owning it. Like, she knew that there were people that she knew that were kind of making fun of her. And I hear that a lot with people on TikTok, right. They want to. People think, oh, you’re trying to be an influencer or whatever, and there’s something negative about that, but more people own it than the more you can’t take.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:22:26]:
Yeah. It takes power away from the people. And, I mean, at the end of the day, we have between now until we’re dead. And so, like, that, when I think about that, I’m like, I’m letting all that other noise be real quiet because this is my life. I get to decide to. And going back to something you said, I equate what you said to collecting evidence of small successes, and then that piles up, and that helps you have confidence, and then the imposter syndrome really isn’t that much of a thing, except maybe when you’re like, I always know when I have imposter syndrome coming up, it’s like a good road sign for me, or like, if I’m feeling, like, any kind of self doubt, I equate that to a good road sign that I’m going in the right direction because I’m pushing my edges either creatively or trying to build my business or whatever. It’s like, oh, I’m on the right track because this feels uncomfortable.

Betsy [00:23:19]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:23:20]:
So, yeah. Building up evidence of your wins and successes, like, small amounts over time and then using that as a way to tell you’re on the right path.

Betsy [00:23:29]:
Yeah, I like it. You know, I use hypnosis a lot.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:23:33]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:23:33]:
Things when I’m starting to feel wobbly. And there’s an app that I use, and if you have an iPhone, if you go to the app store and you just put in hypnosis, it’ll be like this little white triangle or square? It’s a square.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:23:49]:
It’s the one you turned me on to, right?

Betsy [00:23:51]:
Yes. With a JC. A blue JC. Joseph Klauf. It’s that is so good. And it’s a free version, and then they have, like, a paid version, which I do. The paid version. But I think both are really good.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:24:04]:
They’re great.

Betsy [00:24:05]:
And I use those a lot, and I feel like, um, he’s maybe. Is he british?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:24:12]:
Yeah. Or Australia.

Betsy [00:24:13]:
Australian or something. Yeah. But when he said, when I do the self sabotage ones, and he says, self sabotage, I don’t know how, but every time I, like, knocks me out of hypnosis, I’m like, why is he saying it like that? But it’s so good. His stuff is so good. So that would be another thing. And, you know, when we talk about our identity and making big shifts and how we see ourselves and what we want, how we want other people to see us and what we’re comfortable with, I mean, a lot of that’s unconscious, so going right to the unconscious just makes a lot of sense.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:24:46]:
Yeah. Yes. And I’m so glad you turned me on to the app. And then I had it, and I forgot to use it. You’re like, what about the app? I’m like, oh, yeah.

Betsy [00:24:55]:
I almost every day, I’ll use to go to bed because you have, like, nighttime mode, you can just slip flick it to nighttime, and then it puts you, like, in a trance. I’ll wake up at, like, 06:00 a.m. and I’m like, oh, my God. I feel like I’ve been completely, like, completely out of it the whole day.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:25:11]:
So great. Yeah. You know, another thing that I find helpful, and then I do this with my clients when they’re, you know, kind of stuck in this, like, ugh, imposter syndrome, I’m afraid. What do people think? All kind of the same flavor of the same thing. Um. I’m like, what’s the worst that can happen?

Betsy [00:25:29]:
Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:25:29]:
And they can’t really articulate it, but I’m like, no, and I’ll do this to myself, and I’ll write my journal. Like, what’s the worst that can happen? And when you really, like, get your brain trying to answer that question, it’s. It’s stuff that probably honestly will never, ever, ever happen, and it’s tied to, like you said, like, maybe someone that bullied you in high school or middle school, like, making fun of you online. I mean, it’s a just far fetched stuff that our brain is doing, trying to keep us safe because we’re trying to do something new. So I use that a lot. Like, what is the worst that can happen if I do this thing that feels really hard and then I do that.

Betsy [00:26:04]:
And. And then what? And then what? And then what?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:26:07]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:26:07]:
Like, then you’re like, and I’ll die.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:26:10]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:26:10]:
You’re like, no, I won’t. Like, I’m not gonna die.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:26:13]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:26:14]:
Yeah. It’s funny how our brains do a lot to keep us safe.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:26:18]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Betsy [00:26:20]:
Helpful.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:26:21]:
It’s such a fine line between keeping us safe and keeping us stuck.

Betsy [00:26:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. I had. When I was having all those negative, what I perceived at the time as negative. And some of them were mean.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:26:32]:
They were pretty mean. Some of them were mean.

Betsy [00:26:34]:
Yeah. And I actually got one today, and I was like, oh, whatever. But usually they’ll say something about me, like, that I must have been looking for other Mendenna, which is a big. Which at the time, I was like, do they not know? Like, I wanted cats, you know, and the beach. Um, but then also the. A lot on my weight, like, we’re. Because you’re fat or whatever. And I remember thinking, like, that was actually the thing that shifted for me because then I was like, oh, my God, I look really good right now.

Betsy [00:27:05]:
You don’t know. This is actually better. So then I was like, they don’t know what they’re talking about. Like, that was actually the thing that shifted for me because what they were saying didn’t align. I didn’t believe them. Sometimes when some. When we have a fear, and I’m assuming it’s the same when you’re putting out art, I have a fear. I have a fear that they’re going to say it’s bad and that they’re going to be right.

Betsy [00:27:30]:
Yes, but all of art is subjective, so they might be right for them, but it’s. Might be wrong for them, but it might be right for somebody else. Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:27:43]:
It’s so funny you say that, like, and I think it’s just wild that people on the Internet feel it’s okay to say something online that they never in a million, bajillion years would say to someone’s face if they were in real life. Like, that still boggles my mind.

Betsy [00:27:59]:
It’s funny to me because I’m on TikTok and I comment a lot on stuff, and I always think of myself as the hype woman. Like, my job on TikTok is to be everybody’s hype woman. Like, I go in and leave, like, you look great. Like, you’re. This is so cute. You know what I mean? Yeah, that feels so good. But I can’t imagine the other feels good.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:28:20]:
Think how crappy their days have to be if they’re just, like, triggered by hating on the Internet. Go volunteer. Go do something productive.

Betsy [00:28:31]:
Go volunteer. I love you.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:28:39]:
Oh, I was just requesting. I had someone that I was interviewing for my podcast yesterday, and we were talking about this thing that you touched on that where we have to get square in our brains with putting our work out there. And of course, we want everyone to like it because we’re human. And of course we want everyone to like it. The reality is we just need one person to like it, especially if you’re selling original art. Like, I just need one person to like one thing in order for me to sell a piece of art.

Betsy [00:29:13]:
Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:29:14]:
And so when you think about it like that, it does help. And Instagram and social media and all that have done wonders for people, people’s creative careers. I mean, it’s changed the business 100%. Like, when I start, you know, I moved to Atlanta. I worked in a gallery. It was very traditional. People wanted to see a painting. I had to go take a picture, have the picture developed, send the picture that tells me how old I am to the person, and then wait for the response.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:29:41]:
And, you know, the immediacy of it is all amazing. But then there’s also the flip side that we have to balance that. We just need that one person, not 30,000 people, to like it.

Betsy [00:29:53]:
Yes. I love that. I love that. Tell everybody the name of your podcast.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:29:58]:
Mind over medium.

Betsy [00:29:59]:
Mind over medium. Okay, so that’s a place. I should have sent her that right away.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:30:04]:
Oh, yeah. Well, I didn’t even think.

Betsy [00:30:06]:
I just thought, I gotta have her on my show. So greedy. I’m gonna message her today and be like, the show’s coming out, but also just go to this. Yeah. Any other thoughts that you have for people as they’re kind of navigating this way of being?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:30:21]:
You know, I think there two things can be true at one time. You can be fearful and uncertain, and then you can also be excited and happy to be trying something new. And don’t let one outweigh the other. Like, don’t let the fear not overshadow the excitement and the curiosity. And just holding those two things for a while in equal parts can really move you forward.

Betsy [00:30:51]:
I like that. I like that a lot. And you know what my spin on it is?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:30:55]:
Yeah. I want to hear yours.

Betsy [00:30:57]:
That we are here in this experience. You know, usually when I start the show, I say, welcome. Hello, fellow adventurers. We’ve come here to have an adventure. And what is adventure? But not, like, putting yourself out there in new ways, experiencing new things. And part of us having our unique expression is paying attention to the things that we crave to.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:31:21]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:31:21]:
And if you’re putting a stop to the things that you crave because of other people having their own adventure, then you’re limiting the full expression of why you came to be here.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:31:31]:
Yeah, because we. Oh, go ahead.

Betsy [00:31:33]:
Well, no, I mean, interrupt. That’s what I think.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:31:37]:
Well, I think, yeah, you don’t get those nudges for no reason.

Betsy [00:31:40]:
Yeah. Right.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:31:42]:
I mean, no matter what it is.

Betsy [00:31:44]:
And sometimes I think people think, well, what’s gonna, how, you know, how’s it gonna end? But it’s, sometimes that’s not the end. Like maybe that’s the thing that leads to the next thing that leads to the next thing that leads to the thing that is the end.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:31:56]:
Yes.

Betsy [00:31:56]:
But you limiting yourself is like cutting off a pathway.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:32:01]:
Absolutely. And how boring would it be if you knew exactly how it was going to turn out?

Betsy [00:32:06]:
Right.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:32:07]:
So boring.

Betsy [00:32:08]:
Which brings me to, brings me to this thought that I want to share. Have you read the book? Um, the thread? Is this what it’s called? Okay, so my book club for this month is called, I think it’s called the thread.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:32:22]:
Okay.

Betsy [00:32:23]:
Just bought it. I just got it.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:32:25]:
So is it fiction or.

Betsy [00:32:26]:
It’s fiction.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:32:28]:
I just wrote it down as we’re.

Betsy [00:32:30]:
Because it’s this, it’s this idea. Hang on, I’m looking it up. Okay. It is called the measure. Oh, the measure.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:32:38]:
This.

Betsy [00:32:40]:
So everybody wakes up one day, they have this box on their front porch and inside the box, and I haven’t read it yet. So I’m guessing from the back of the book is like a thread that tells you exactly how long you’re going to live. Right? Like how long. And so it’s a whole thing of. Do you open the box or not?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:00]:
Yeah, I’ve heard about this book.

Betsy [00:33:03]:
Right? I’m excited to read it.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:04]:
Yeah, that’s a good one. Ooh, I’m going to have to read it. Yeah. Nice.

Betsy [00:33:08]:
Then, like, would you want to know? Would you want to know? It’s funny.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:14]:
Would you?

Betsy [00:33:14]:
I wouldn’t want to know. My husband wouldn’t want to know, but my daughter would want to know. And I wonder if it’s because she’s young.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:20]:
Oh, that could be. Yeah.

Betsy [00:33:22]:
Because then you think you’re going to, you think, well, I’ll have a big ass string. Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:27]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:33:28]:
I’m like, I don’t freaking know.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:29]:
I don’t have an idea at this point.

Betsy [00:33:32]:
And is it good? Is it better if it’s longer or better if it’s shorter? Like, what, am I gonna live to 110 and be like, you know, all my friends will be gone. Like, I don’t know what would be worse.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:43]:
So true. Like, I did not find out when I was pregnant. Like, what I was going to have either time.

Betsy [00:33:49]:
You didn’t you just find out when the baby was born?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:33:52]:
Yeah. I like surprises. We have so few, like, delightful surprises, I think, in our life, and I just enjoy them.

Betsy [00:33:58]:
I found out, but I was still surprised. Just at a different.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:34:02]:
Oh, sure, yeah.

Betsy [00:34:05]:
Just at a different time than you. Yeah. Yeah. Because I want. I’m a planner. I love plan.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:34:12]:
You do? You’re good. I am, in a way, yes. There are certain parts of my life that are very planned, and I’m organized, and then there are other parts that, like, if you saw my studio, you’d be like, that is a mess. But it’s a mess that I know where everything is, and it makes sense in my brain. Yeah.

Betsy [00:34:31]:
So it’s like the artist part of you, you know what I mean? Where it would make sense that you wouldn’t want to plan because it would be really hard to have a plan and do art, I think.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:34:40]:
Yeah. I mean, I do have to plan, like, plan my time. Um, I paint usually in a series, so I don’t just start one, finish one. So, I mean, so. Oh, yeah, most people do. Yeah, most artists I know do.

Betsy [00:34:56]:
No, my art is my fashion.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:35:01]:
That’s so like insider baseball, which my.

Betsy [00:35:05]:
T shirt today says optimist. Every time I put it on, I think it says ophthalmologist. And then I feel like, why am I wearing an ophthalmologist t shirt? Which, you know, imposter syndrome. I’m not an optimist, but, yeah, so that’s fascinating to me. Do you know what you are on Myers Briggs?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:35:26]:
Oh, my gosh, yes. I have to think about it. Enfj.

Betsy [00:35:30]:
Oh, you’re j. I’m infJ.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:35:34]:
I don’t really know what that means.

Betsy [00:35:36]:
Judger or perceiver. So judges really like to plan.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:35:40]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:35:40]:
It might be that my judger is harder than your judger and doesn’t really mean judging, you know, it’s more like I like to have structure and plan and systems.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:35:49]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:35:50]:
Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:35:51]:
Well, I just think that was part of, like, how I kept myself safe as a kid, like, knowing where my edge. You know what I mean?

Betsy [00:35:56]:
Yeah.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:35:57]:
So I think it was probably something I developed.

Betsy [00:36:00]:
So when you go to just like that behind you, if anybody’s watching the video. They’ll see that you drew that. I mean, it’s really good. I mean, I know you’re really good, Serena and Lily, but, like, this is really good.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:36:16]:
So it’s not done, but yes. Thank you.

Betsy [00:36:18]:
Well, so when you. When you start something like that, then you have ideas for other ones.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:36:24]:
Yeah, I’m doing a whole series now. I started a series with parts of women and florals. Like, I do a ton of florals and, like, having pieces and parts of a woman’s body. And with it, it’s been something I’ve been to kind of noodling on for a while. So now I’m just trying to figure it out on canvas and paper.

Betsy [00:36:44]:
That sounds nice. I like that. I’ve done, like, big murals and stuff.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:36:50]:
I have. Yeah. Yeah.

Betsy [00:36:54]:
Like, a wide range. I mean, is that normal?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:36:56]:
It is pretty normal. I think there’s a part of people, like, I don’t know many artists who don’t believe in their ability to figure something out in that. In that area. It’s like, oh, I can probably figure it out or talk to someone that knows someone that can help you figure it out. So there’s a real resourcefulness, I think, about that.

Betsy [00:37:22]:
Yeah. This was so fun.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:37:24]:
Thanks for coming on. I’m so excited to be on your show.

Betsy [00:37:28]:
I know. I feel like we could just sit and talk. Like, I have things to talk about. So we’ll have to go get coffee soon, for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Tell everybody how to find you and how to find you on Instagram and all that good stuff.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:37:39]:
Yes. Yes. You can find me on Instagram. My name Lee Ann Slotkin, and I’m sure you’ll put it in there because it’s spelled weird, but. And my podcast is mind over medium, and, yeah, that’s where I’m about to be on substack. That’s. I’m getting all that handled. Yeah, I’m pretty excited about.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:37:57]:
I like substack.

Betsy [00:37:58]:
What are you going to do? You’re going to write?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:38:00]:
I, you know, blog. Right. I’m gonna. My podcast will be hosted over there. I’m gonna have some groups over there. Yeah.

Betsy [00:38:10]:
There’s a lot you can do.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:38:11]:
There’s so much. Yeah. I mean, you can. You’ll still be able to listen to the podcast on whatever player, but it will just be hosted there.

Betsy [00:38:18]:
Yeah. So, yeah, I’m about to go on the click clack, the tick tock. I mean, I’ve been on TikTok, and I’ve talked about being on TikTok. In fact, I think the end captain of my podcast, if you guys listen all the way to the end where it says, thanks for listening, find me on TikTok because I had a plan, but I never executed out of fear, but I’m not going to let fear hold me back anymore.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:38:43]:
Why does TikTok feel a little scarier than, like, Instagram or something to you?

Betsy [00:38:47]:
Well, you know, on Instagram, I do. It’s like me walking or, you know what I mean, doing something. And then, and then what it is I want to really talk about is on the screen and then in the caption is a whole bunch of stuff. But I feel like TikTok is quite a bit different because it’s, you got to talk more now. It’s weird because. So maybe we can noodle through this. It’s weird because I can talk like, I’ve done the podcast, but if I don’t do the podcast, like with you, with a guest, I shut my eyes. And so I found it really hard to record because I’d have to have my eyes closed.

Betsy [00:39:27]:
And I know that sounds kind of strange, because at first when I was trying to noodle through it, I was like, is that a concentration thing? But I don’t think that is. You know, I have. I’m going to say it this way, and it’s interesting that I find the need to do a disclaimer here, but I don’t think I’m channeling, but I think I’m really intuitive. And if I can shut my eyes, I can hear a voice. Now it’s. It’s me, but it’s, like, without the garbage.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:40:05]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:40:05]:
So if I can just get really in it, I can just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. So I think my message, I have thought, how am I going to do it? Because I’ll just be there with my eyes closed, which maybe I just put sunglasses on, who knows? But then also, I felt like my message, I need more than, like, 60 seconds or 90 seconds or whatever tiktoks are now. Like, it’s. I feel like sometimes it’s hard for me to explain what I do or what my process or viewpoints are on things because it’s not complicated, but it’s not as simple as saying, does that make sense? And please disagree with me if you think I could do it.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:40:49]:
I mean, it makes sense that your brain’s offering up a bunch of nonsense for why it’s going to be difficult, because it’s new and you’ve not done it, and you have a certain way of doing things that work for you. Got a lot of evidence over here about what’s worked for you. I think you just need to let that be there and do it anyway, because, you know, you’re perfectly capable of figuring this out and whatever the systems are that you need to put a place, like, in place. And I think 60 seconds really is quite a long time to explain yourself, and then you can have a part two and a part three. I mean, I’m sure there are a million ways to work around it, so.

Betsy [00:41:27]:
And I didn’t want to do it the same. You know, I wanted to gear it towards the platform and not do it the same as Instagram, which is more like picture y and videoy and.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:41:35]:
Yeah.

Betsy [00:41:36]:
Or TikTok feels more talking.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:41:40]:
I don’t do TikTok. So this is all.

Betsy [00:41:42]:
Do you never. Do you not even, like, do not have the app?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:41:46]:
No.

Betsy [00:41:48]:
So good. I’m glad I haven’t said there’s a trend right now on TikTok where this woman is like, do you see how I’m. And she’s very funny. She’s very funny. She’s trans, and she’s like, do you see how I do this? I’m very demure, very cute. I do this very mindfully, and all of her videos. So now everybody’s doing that. So I’m so glad, because I almost said, it’s very cutesy, very demure.

Betsy [00:42:14]:
You would have been like, what world is it?

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:42:18]:
Okay, weirdo.

Betsy [00:42:20]:
My daughter and I only talk in TikTok. Sounds like. I swear, we don’t have conversations if it doesn’t include, like, a.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:42:26]:
Well, what’s a TikTok sound?

Betsy [00:42:28]:
That’s like the. You know what somebody’s saying, like, there’ll be a clip, right? And then you can reuse the clips of somebody else. So it makes it kind of. It’s fun. If you got on tick tock. Anybody that’s listening to me right now that’s on TikTok is shaking their head going, yes, do it.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:42:46]:
I just. Yeah, I can. Oh, my brain can only handle so much stimulation, so I know my limit.

Betsy [00:42:53]:
Yeah, that’s good.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:42:54]:
Good for you.

Betsy [00:42:55]:
Good for you. I lose half my brain on that thing, but I love it. Time waster.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:43:00]:
That’s a good one. That’s a really good one.

Betsy [00:43:03]:
Well, thanks so much for being here. It was awesome.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:43:07]:
Yeah. Thank you.

Betsy [00:43:08]:
And we’ll see you soon.

Lea Ann Slotkin [00:43:10]:
Thanks. Bye.

Betsy [00:43:13]:
Hey, thanks so much for listening to today’s show, and thank you for sharing the show. With your friends. I love when you guys do that. I appreciate it so much. And thank you for leaving me a review on iTunes. I know that it matters because when, when I go to find a podcast, I always look to see what the reviews are. So it really means a lot to me that you take a minute to, like, figure out how to even make that happen. Now, if you want to find me, find me on social media.

Betsy [00:43:38]:
I’m usually on Instagram starting out on TikTok. It’s just my name, Betsy Paik. And that’s my website, too, betsypake.com. and you can find out all about the work that I do, having me speak for an event that you might be helping to plan or getting trained inside my alchemy institute. But to make it really easy, if you want me, just shoot me a DM. Shoot me a direct message on Instagram and I will be at your service. Thanks again for listening and I will see you all next week.