#56: Connect Spiritually with Tantra, with Hannah Spanke

Love Is Us: Exploring Relationships and How We Connect

Join me in a conversation wtih Hannah Spanke to learn about Tantra and how it can make you feel more connected to everyone and everything.

Hannah Spanke is a relationship coach, clinical sexologist, and passionate advocate for authentic happiness and sustainable, healthy relationships, starting with the one we have with ourselves. She has numerous credentials and styles of training under her belt, from years of study after nearly a decade in the adult entertainment industry. She is a Licensed Authentic Tantra Practitioner, Board Certified Clinical Sexologist, and Relationship & Life Coach specializing in helping individuals become their happiest selves through inner & outer work, while learning to understand and relate to their partners & family in the best ways possible.

Learn more about Hannah

Website: https://www.hannahspanke.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hannahspanke/

Learn more about Karin

Website: https://www.drcalde.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theloveandconnectioncoach/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@loveandconnectioncoach

TRANSCRIPT

Intro:

Karin: This is Love Is Us, Exploring Relationships and How We Connect. I'm your host, Karin Calde. I'll talk with people about how we can strengthen our relationships, explore who we are in those relationships, and experience a greater sense of love and connection with those around us, including ourselves. I have a PhD in clinical Psychology, practiced as a psychologist resident, and after diving into my own healing work, I went back to school and became a coach, helping individuals and couples with their relationships and personal growth. If you want to experience more love in your life and contribute to healing the disconnect so prevalent in our world today, you're in the right place. Welcome to Love Is Us.

Episode:

Karin: Hello, everybody. Today I'm going to be talking with my guest about kind of a different topic, something that we haven't really talked much about but is absolutely applicable to both self development and our relationships. So there are lots of different frameworks that we can use when you talk about these subjects. And one way we can do that is think about the different things that impact them, including our emotions, our mental capabilities and our mental status, social impacts, the environment, our physical health, sexuality, but also spirituality. And we have touched on spirituality in different ways. But I would just want to make clear, I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about that sense of having meaning in your life, purpose in your life, of feeling connected to something beyond you, to feeling connected with everything and everyone on this earth. And I find that when people have a well developed sense of spirituality, a lot of other things also fall into place. So today I'm going to be talking about one model of spirituality, and that is Tantra. And so Hannah Spanky is my guest, and she was my guest back on episode number 34 when we talk about sexuality. And if you haven't listened to that one, I do recommend. It was a really fun conversation, but I really learned a lot during this conversation because I knew very little about tantra before today. So I hope you dive in. I hope you get something out of it. I think the best part, or for me, maybe the most interesting part, was at the end when she talks about the five different elements. Anyway, I hope you like it. And here we go.

Karin: Welcome back, Hannah.

[02:41] Hannah: Thank you for having me, Karen. I'm so excited to be here.

[02:44] Karin: Yeah, it's great to have you back again. I'm so glad that we got to connect last summer and also stay in contact. When it was time for me to bring up this subject, I automatically thought of you and was so glad that you wanted to come back. So welcome back and perhaps you can remind people where you are in the world.

[03:07] Hannah: Yes. So thank you for the reminder that it was last summer when we last talked on the show, because so much has changed drastically multiple times over since then. I've moved, I think, probably three times since last time I saw you. And currently I'm in Carson City, Nevada. So, like, Reno Tahoe area. So that's where I'm at as of Christmas ish time. And I'll probably be here for the next, maybe the rest of the year. We'll see how antsy I get.

[03:37] Karin: Yeah. I do remember you were in transition. You were, I think, staying with your sister, and there were a lot of dogs.

[03:42] Hannah: Yes. Yes. I was with my sister in central Coast, California, for two months, and then I was in Joshua Tree for six months, and then I came here, where I also have family in the area. So it's been good. It's been nice. I met a boyfriend, so that's been lovely. I think that's why I was brought here, but we'll see how long I stay.

[04:01] Karin: Okay. All right, well, we'll have to talk about that later, but tell us what you do for work.

[04:09] Hannah: Yes. So I'm a somatic healer. I'm a relationship expert, relationship coach, intimacy expert, and a clinical sexologist, as well as a tantra teacher. So I like to kind of lump those things together, the clinical sexology and the tantra, because they absolutely support each other. However, they are different. And I think that this will be the first note I make on that difference and probably 100 more times throughout this conversation that tantra does not mean sex necessarily. You can have tantric sex just as easily as you could have a tantric dinner. It doesn't necessarily mean sex. It's a certain approach to the way that you're doing that thing. And so I incorporate tantra as far as the spiritual, emotional, mental support to help people in their intimate lives, as well as that more clinical side of things with the sexology approach.

[05:05] Karin: Okay. And we're going to get into that. But first, I want to ask, we talked a little bit about this last time, but how did you come to.

[05:13] Hannah: Do this work so shortest? What I feel currently, the truest answer is soul contract esque. I came here to do this, and so I found my way one way or another. But summary version just in this lifetime. Snapshot is I experienced my fair share of childhood trauma, a lot of separation in the home, a lot of issues that led me to being available, to stepping into the sex industry as a teenager. I was 16, freshly 16, and I was in that world for about seven and a half, almost eight years. And then stepping out of that industry was really a huge bomb to my life. Like, earth shattering kind of transition phase had started. My spiritual awakening had begun. Officially, that was what I consider my first dark night of the soul, probably about five years ago and maybe a little bit more now. And I started on my healing journey very quickly and eagerly. And like a fire hose approach, I did everything at once as fast as I could. All kinds of different cognitive therapies, different somatic work, different shamanic, spiritual type healing retreats, in person stuff, virtual stuff, and just, like, hit it from every single angle. And then as I shed layers and layers of the things that I needed to let go of, I kind of awoken or got more in touch with the wisdom that I uniquely carry, as well as the things I learned through my own process. And then that turned into me having more and more clarity on how I wanted to help people, others on their own journeys, and naturally, just with the way that things unfolded. And like I said, very soul contract. The theme has been undeniable my whole life. I knew it would be something to do with relationships, relating, intimacy, sex, taboo things in that realm. And that's exactly where I'm at. Through the last five, six years, I have, like I said, done the fire hose approach for my own healing, as well as really taken my time and gone deep into a few different modalities and tools, less techniques, different lineage things like the tantra that I'm trained in to just continue to evolve my own journey, as well as add to my repertoire of tools.

[07:39] Karin: Wonderful. Why don't we go ahead and get into it? So maybe you could start with telling us what tantra is.

[07:47] Hannah: Yes. And I am so happy to answer that question because it feels like, I don't know, it's like the opportunity to debunk so many myths every time somebody asks. Because I know for myself even, and I say this in hindsight, I say it shamelessly now, but I was a little embarrassed about it for a while. When I first started my journey with tantra, it was personal only. It was for my own healing. And then it all aligned quickly, that this is something that I was going to teach, and this was going to be part of my practice or my offering to the world. And even a year, maybe eight months into that journey, I was like, what is tantra? What the fuck does tantra mean? It feels like this very elusive term. It's like there's no concrete definition that is mainstream, at least. And so I think we all make whatever we think it means up kind of based on social media or media contexts and stuff. So a lot of tantra in the western mind is thought of as sex, sexual things, kamasutra type stuff. At least that's what I hear from people mostly. However, tantra is an ancient science, an ancient tradition. I think of it really as like a family of spiritual science where its roots are traceable all the way back to one origin. But there are many, many different branches of it at this point, over many thousands of years. It can be traced all the way back to people migrating, like, 13,000 bc esque time, like, long, long time ago. 15, 17,000 years ago. It can be traced back to when, like, prehistoric, when an enlightened master, who, I cannot remember his name at this time. You can google it. He traveled from India. India. Africa is really, like, the origin place of Tantra. In the very beginning. Indian is obviously the hindu tradition. And then it was brought north to the himalayan region to, like, Tibet, Nepal, baton, those areas where it was differentiated once again, and it became more of, like, the hindu version. And then the off branch there is the, like, more asian expressions of the tradition. And so up until that point in that region, the himalayan region, the people there practiced something called bonpo. And Bonpo was just the most ancient tradition religion of that area. That was one step more organized than what basically everybody on the planet practiced up until that point, thousands and thousands of years ago, which was animism, which is basically the recognition that all things have spirit and being in union with all things in life. And so it went from that, like, ice age people animism up to the Bon pro tradition, up to the very first expression of tantra in that buddhist region. And then the buddhist influence and all of that was kind of developed and interwoven. And so the lineage that I'm trained in specifically is a lineage of tibetan buddhist tantra that can be traced back about 1200 years. And it's called the Shankpakagi lineage, and it was originated by two women. And so it is a feminine lineage as well in Tantra. I know, there's so many questions. I'm probably.

[11:12] Karin: This is so interesting.

[11:13] Hannah: Yeah.

[11:14] Karin: I didn't know it had the relationship with Buddhism, which I love. That's so interesting. Okay, I'm sorry, I interrupted you.

[11:22] Hannah: Go ahead. No, it's totally good. Your excitement face is exciting me. So this is great. But, yeah. So depending on, really, the origin or which lineage you are called to or practicing or whatever it has different roots, slightly. So, like, what I practice is tibetan buddhist tantra. So its roots are associated with Buddhism versus if it was an indian tradition, it would be associated with, like, Hinduism. So tantra has a lot of different expressions in the world. But I, to make it super simple, kind of put it into two categories. There's classical tantra, which to me means it's tied to a lineage that can be traced. And lineage just simply means passed down from enlightened master of some sort to student master to student, master to student in an unbroken chain that can be traced. And so if you are studying something that has a lineage, it has some sort of roots that is classical. And if you were studying something that doesn't necessarily have roots in the same way I put that in, like, the neo tantra category, I am biased, and I say that openly about this because I've studied and trained the last three and a half years in a specific lineage based tantra. So not to discredit the value of neotantra, because I think there's value in everything. Truly, that's part of the tantric worldview I have, is that there is value in everything. However, I wish there was a different name for it. It's like people who get upset that almond milk is called milk because it's not milk. I wish that neo tantra wasn't called tantra. I wish it was called something else, because it just paints a very different picture of what tantra is compared to classical lineage based approaches. It all has value, but without the tradition aspect to it, it, in my opinion, kind of takes away a bit of the reverence and the sacredness that I find is very important. To really honor those traditions and embody the teachings, it has to be done with a certain level of reverence for it. And if there's no roots for it, and it's just because I want to decide, I want to write a book today about how to eat pussy or something and call it a tantra book. That can happen. And so I'm like, God, no, it's not the same. So that's my two cent on those differences.

[13:51] Karin: It's interesting. Would you say that the neotantra is kind of white appropriation? Is that true?

[14:00] Hannah: I think it definitely just speaks to sort of like the cultureless plague of the western world, that we don't have roots. It's like the melting pot for a reason, because there's just a whole bunch of everything. And so, so many of us, we all have tradition. We all have roots somewhere. And even if we're all in America. We all have roots from somewhere. And with just living in this culture, I think we get very much disconnected from that in a collective way. And so the importance of tradition and those roots is just a lot less in our culture. And so I think it kind of permits different behavior that wouldn't be the same somewhere else.

[14:39] Karin: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And how did you learn and learn tantra? Where did you learn it?

[14:44] Hannah: Yeah, occult. So that's a different story. Yeah. So, long story short, I found my way to this institution. This school. They're based in Canada, and it was a two and a half year unfolding. Essentially, the school itself is rooted in the traditions that I am speaking about, the specific lineage of tibetan buddhist tantra. However, the school teaches their own version of tantra. There's a specific name. I'm not even going to give energy to it. But they teach that version of tantra that is rooted in what I'm talking about, just completely distorted the sacredness of these teachings. And they were leveraging the teachings for their own self service, manipulation, control, power, those types of things.

[15:45] Karin: Okay, so even though this institution was questionable, they still had a lot to offer that you were able to take in and learn from and then figure out how to make it better.

[16:00] Hannah: Yes. Lots to unlearn as well. But, yeah, it was both, because in this world, we learned through that contrast. So it was what it needed to be, but it was the gateway for me to step back into connection with that lineage that I've personally been tied to for a long time.

[16:22] Karin: Yeah. Okay. All right. So perhaps you can get a little bit more into the nitty gritty of the different aspects of tantra.

[16:33] Hannah: Yes. I want to be just, like, extra clear that what I am talking about is the lineage that I'm trained in, tibetan buddhist tantra. So I'm definitely not, like, a self proclaimed expert on tantra as a complete whole or, like, hindu tantra or other things that I haven't studied to the same degree. So to start that, what I can really name is a couple of things, three things specifically that make tibetan tantra different from other lineages. So number one is the motivation for practice compared to a hindu tradition, the motivation for practice in most hindu traditions, as far as I know, and this could be butchered a little bit, but as far as I know, is more self oriented and not in any negative way, but it's like, for that individual to achieve enlightenment. It's for that individual to ascend, to heal, to grow, transform, whatever with the tibetan lineage, it has that budhist influence. And so it says, instead of just for me to reach enlightenment, it's for the enlightenment of all beings. And so at the end of every single one of the formal practices I do, you dedicate the merit of the practice. And it's kind of prayerful. You can do it to whoever you want. But traditionally, it's like, I dedicate the root merit and virtue of this practice to all living beings. May they reach enlightenment. So it is, and so the purpose behind it is a little bit more global. It feels like it's more obvious with its interconnectedness. And so I really appreciated that aspect of it. And then the second difference is the central channel placement. So if you've ever seen any sort of chakra system picture, you see the Chakras all the way up the center of the body in a hindu tradition like Kundalini yoga and different traditions that recognize the central channel as being in the spine. Like, if you do Kundalini yoga or something, that's that hindu tantric tradition, it's all about awakening that Kundalini energy at the base of the spine and allowing it to rise up the spine. In the Tibetan traditions, that is a no. That's like a hard no. It's like, specifically taught not to see, visualize, acknowledge the central channel in the spine because of some energetic conflict between your nervous system and your energy body. And so the way that the Tibetan Buddhist lineages practice is placing the central channel literally in the center of the body, like in front of the spine, behind the sternum. So that placement is different. Well, this goes hand in hand. That third piece that's different is the chakra system. So in a Hindu tradition, which is what we're mostly familiar and comfortable with in the western world, is like root, sacral, solar plexus, heart, throat, the standard ones that we all are used to. It feels so standard because we're so used to it. Yeah.

[19:33] Karin: And I just want to say, for those who aren't familiar with the chakras, that's what we're talking about is these chakras that we try to open up and access that they go all throughout the center of the body there.

[19:45] Hannah: Yeah. Just for a little bit of clarity on that, the word chakra, in its root, the sanskrit word, it means wheel. And so basically, it's acknowledging a wheel of energy in the center of your body, where it's like a hub for that specific type of energy, like you have one in your heart. And so that's your heart chakra. You have one in your throat. That's your throat chakra, and it's a wheel of energy, and then the central channel that those wheels are all aligned with. I think of it as like an invisible nervous system, sort of where it's like, in the nervous system 3D body, you have a spinal cord and a network of nerves that goes all the way out in all directions to the surface of the skin. In your energy body, you have that central channel that holds the chakras, just like your spinal column holds your spinal cord. Your central channel holds the chakras. And then those wheels spin, the energy that flows through your body all the way out through the surface of your skin, just like nerves. And so this is why when you feel like you have to cry or something and your throat's clogged up your throat, like you're holding something back, because that wheel has an input of energy or influx and energy that it can't do anything with until you allow it to move. And so it's always just trying to move through the system. I digress. No, that was good.

[21:01] Karin: That was great. That was great. It's helpful.

[21:03] Hannah: So the chakra system that I practice with, and because I'm raised in this culture, I'm very familiar with the seven chakra system that I just mentioned. So that is still very much in my awareness. But as far as true to the tibetan buddhist tradition, it's a five chakra system, not seven. And they are all associated with a different element. And so starting from the bottom all the way up to the head, it's the fire, earth, space, air, and water chakras, elements. And so this speaks to how the oldest traceable roots of these specific lineages of these regions, the whole Himalayan area, come from that animism worldview, where they see the spirit and everything, and the elements are very much a part of everything. And so the elements are a big part of this tradition that I practice as well. Now, Tantra, the actual word tantra in Sanskrit means to weave. And so the way that I think about tantra, and I've never heard it described like this, but it makes so much sense to me, is that tantra is a pathway to healing, enlightenment, ascension, however you want to think about it, because it is the integration of everything. And so tantra in this tradition specifically means to weave light and sound with form. And the way that that actually gets done is the practices are done with the eyes open, so you're allowing light in as you're doing your practices, meditation or whatever it is that you're doing. Your eyes are open, letting light in, so that there's truly no separation between you. Your internal world, your external world, your practice, your regular life, it's all being integrated at once, which is the ENd GoAl ANyWays. So that's the light. And then as well as visualizing the elements that you're working with. So, like, if I was doing a fire element practice, I might be visualizing red light. So that is the light PiEce. Sound is the chanting, using the voice to activate some of these energies. SO, Like, FiRe element in this tradition is connected to the seed syllable ram. So you could. Ram, ram, ram, ram, ram. And you're activating that energy. And then form is the actual body. And so again with that buddhist perspective, it acknowledges the body as God, as the BuDDHA. It is the vessel that holds everything we need to achieve whatever it is that we came here to do. And so healing within the body, a closed chakra system, versus, like, shooting it out to the cosmos or sending your energy down into the earth like Hindu practices, that's the last difference between the two. It's all about healing from the inside of the body, cultivating these energies for your own benefit. And so that healing with light and sound, or healing using light and sound with form, is essentially the recipe for an evolution of consciousness on a cellular level. Like, our cells are driven by light, literally, we need sunlight. We need light for the energy system in our body to even work, like on the MosT 3d level. And so one step beyond that is simply just light. And so using these tools that tantra offers to upgrade your light body, it's basically yoga for your energy body. You can stretch and go to a yin class or a flow class or whatever. AnD thAt's LIKE YOga for YOUr physical body. TANTra is YoGA for YOUr energy body. And so it's like the practice of strengthening, toning, connecting with that energy body that ultimately evolves your consciousness. And AS everybody on the planet was EVolving in consciousness, the planet would be evolving in consciousness. And so that's the point, is like collective healing, one person at a time. To me, Tantra is the epitome of integration, because it's all about weaving all things together. And integration, to me, is the epitome of life itself, the epitome of the healthy, happy life we all want on a soul level. We're all connected. We live in this 3d world. We forget that. And I think it creates a lot of pain. And we feel separate, alone. Like, our problems are unique, too unique to be understood, to be shared. All that stuff that we're all plagued with from time to time. The antidote to that is remembering our interconnectedness is remembering that anytime we believe the separation, it's not really the truth, it's an illusion. And tantra is such what I consider, like, trustworthy path to embodying that, knowing that nothing is separate.

[26:01] Karin: So I love that idea of us all being interconnected, and it does really remind me of Buddhism. But what's the difference, then, between Buddhism and tibetan buddhist tantra?

[26:16] Hannah: Yeah, so the difference, I suppose, is that there is absolutely no buddhist structure to it. There are no specific buddhist practices or teachings that you would find associated with the actual religion. And so I think about it in terms of kind of, like, jewish people. It's like you can be jewish by blood or, like, jewish, like, you really are a practicing jew. And so I think that this is more like the buddhist bloodline. The influence is there, but it's not the practice of Buddhism. So one example of a practice in this lineage would be doing all the different meditations that go with each element. So the fire element meditation, earth element meditation. So those things, like, if you walked into a buddhist temple and we're like, hey, let's do the fire element meditation, they would look at you like you were crazy. Because the actual practices that I'm talking about are not buddhist practices alone. But the influence in the way that they're done or why they're done a certain way is very buddhist.

[27:27] Karin: Okay, I'm getting you now. And I know that YOgA is an aspect of Tantra. Is that just with the HIndu practice, or is it with this lineage that you practice?

[27:45] Hannah: Yes, absolutely. I would say it's the same for AnY lineage, maybe even some NeotANTRA, if they're really teaching it well, whatever it is. Yeah. So just, like, I don't know if you have ever gotten into yoga very much personally or know, I haven't spent a very long time in yoga, in the yoga world, but maybe the last six months or so, eight months, I've gone to a number of classes here and there, and something that always stood out to me is how simple it seems, but how that is not true for everyone in the room. It's like I could walk into a class, and I'm thinking, okay, I've never been here before. I don't know what I'm doing. Somebody just tell me how to move my body, and I'll be good after the hour. Whereas the instructor is ExPERiencing it on a completely different depth, a completely different level. They're experiencing the meditative quality of it. Or the healing aspect of that self connection time, or connecting with their breath and regulating their nervous system on purpose. So there's like this whole deeper realm to yoga that you don't get right away. You have to kind of walk into it and settle into it. And I would say same thing for tantra. It's like you could read a sex tip in a tantra magazine or something and do it, or you could do something at a completely different level. And it's all tantra. But I think the actual devotional practice, however you choose to do it, is the yoga aspect. It's like the devotion, the acknowledgement that. I think it's an Aurelius quote. He says, straight, never straightened or something like that, where it's like, the point is like you have to keep coming back, coming back to your mat, coming back to your tantra practice, coming back to your meditation practice, because it will go as deep as you want, but you have to treat it like a practice or else you don't get the benefits. Just Like a yoga class. Yeah, that was a very roundabout answer, but short answer. Yes. Tantra is Yoga. Tantra is just simply yoga focused on the energy body and not the 3D body.

[30:05] Karin: Yeah, primarily. What does tantra have to do with relationships? Alluded to that a bit, but maybe you can talk about that more specifically.

[30:14] Hannah: This is such a good question. Tantra has everything to do with relationships, because the essence of tantra is relationship. Even the breakdown of the word in this tradition, meaning weaving light and sound with form, it's the relationship of the light with the sound. It's the relationship of the sound with the form. It's a relationship of the sound with the light. Like all things, the essence of it is relationship. And so when we are in relationship, like girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, wife relationships, we all run into issues. We all get triggered. We all have things that bother us, things that we need, things that we don't like, and some of that is never going to stop. But I think a lot of the conflict we experience in relationships can really be just dissolved, completely gotten rid of with a more tantric approach, grounded in the knowing that we are connected, we are choosing to be in this connection together. Staying, like, your finger on the pulse to that interconnectedness, really, I think, saves so much pain, because when you're in conflict, it's only painful when you see yourselves as separate. It's me versus you. And so if that me versus you thing that shows up for everyone in relationships at some point, if that can be kind of mitigated. With a tantric perspective, it doesn't even have to be a practice, just the mindset, even that we're all in this together kind of thing. The only way through is through. There is no alternative other than coming back into union. That is the end goal, always. That alleviates a lot of the issues I think we have in relationship, because we believe in the moment that it's us against them.

[32:00] Karin: So there's a real mindset piece to this depth of belief that can really serve people well when they're in relationships.

[32:09] Hannah: With others, for sure. And you just said that so well. I think that's what I was talking in circles about, about the yoga piece, where it's like I've walked into a yoga class and the teacher is talking about all this profound blah, blah, blah about yoga, and I'm thinking, this is an hour of stretching. This is not that profound. But their experience of it is completely different. Because of their devotion to their practice, they reach a certain level of embodiment where now that's just the way they think. That's just their natural mindset towards it all. And so same thing. Like, I'm talking about it as a mindset, but not at all, because tantra is taught as a mindset. It's because of my embodiment of it that now that's just how I see things.

[32:55] Karin: Yeah. And of course, it does go beyond the mind. It's a way of seeing the world. But, yeah, like you said, it's embodied, but it's a spiritual practice as well.

[33:07] Hannah: Yes.

[33:08] Karin: So, speaking of relationships, so how does tantra come into sex and physical relationships.

[33:18] Hannah: If we just make it super simple and say that tantra is focused on union? Always. It's union with yourself, that divine, masculine, divine feminine that we all have inside of ourselves. Healing and merging those two in partnership, being in union with the person that you're with in harmony with them. That theme brought into the bedroom because, and I hate to say this so, like, crudely, but I will, for the sake of the point. I think most people unconsciously are using sex as a sort of selfish outlet to kind of masturbate with another person, where you're both maybe experiencing pleasure at the same time, but without that intention to connect throughout it, then what are you doing besides kind of renting each other's bodies? And so the tantra aspect could be as simple as sitting face to face or, like, in each other's lap or hand on the heart, something, and taking a couple of deep breaths together while you look into each other's eyes until you feel like you're connected and then have sex. It could be as simple as that. It doesn't have to be some twelve hour long, technique driven thing. It could just simply be a little bit more mindful about how connected you feel in the moment when you feel like you're thinking about the dishes, bringing yourself back, pausing your partner, putting that hand out, whatever it is that you need to do to kind of stop, ask for a moment of reconnection, take a couple of breaths together and get back into it. Or slow down when you need to slow down. Or speed up when you feel your energy is speeding up and you need to match that. It's just about staying connected to what's true, to what's going on in your own body, and to what you need with the other person and to what's going on in their body. As long as those three things are like here and there, focused on it will be a completely different experience than what most people are having.

[35:25] Karin: I imagine this can really be a healing experience for many couples.

[35:33] Hannah: Absolutely. 100%. What I notice with couples is that once they're individually dropped into a more connected state, a more tantric state, where they're more calm and comfortable in their own body than they might be when they normally start having sex, or they're a little bit more grounded than they might be when they start something. Just that extra three, four minutes of dropping in, it opens the door to so much more pleasure. Because when you're more grounded and connected to yourself, it's easier to speak confidently and openly about what you want. So there's that. It opens the door to you guys really seeing yourselves as teammates and doing that more vulnerably because you're both more grounded in yourselves, in your bodies, in your truth. And I think one of the most healing aspects of it, and this, again, is super simple, it doesn't need to be super technical or crazy at all. You don't have to go to Bali for two weeks to do, like, just the experience, the emotional, spiritual, mental experience of being felt by the other person in a way that's. That's deeper than just physically. That alone can be so incredibly healing because so much of our pain that we all carry has gone unwitnessed our whole lives in the true way that it needs to be witnessed. And so when you're in pleasure, even doesn't have to be pain, but when you're in pleasure with your partner and you can feel them really witnessing you in your whole entire experience, that can be healing to years and years and years of pain that never got the chance to be seen. And so that's where Tantra turns sex into pleasure as medicine, and it's really a pathway to healing.

[37:31] Karin: And then that reminds me of connection.

[37:34] Hannah: Yeah.

[37:35] Karin: Which is what it's all about.

[37:37] Hannah: Right? Yeah.

[37:40] Karin: So I know that there is this theme of masculine feminine polarity in Tanya, can you tell us a little bit more about that.

[37:52] Hannah: Also? Awesome question, because this is another one of the big, like, I don't know if misconception is the right word, but, yeah, maybe that there's a lot of assumption. I think that tantra or tantric teaching simply means polarity, which simply means, like, we are opposite somehow, and that's what makes attraction happen. And to some degree, I agree with that. That's why we don't all date our clones. Like, you don't want someone that's exactly like you. There needs to be something that creates that magnetism. If you're not opposing in some way, there's no magnetism. But ultimately. So there's also kind of two branches of tantra here. It's like I said, classical versus neo tantra. There's also duality focused tantra and nondual tantra. And so what I tend to lean towards is more nondual teachings, which is really focused on inner union more than outer union. Because if you have your own inner divine, masculine divine feminine that are both healthy, healed, supported in the right ways and connected to each other, then you can easily hold that outside of yourself, too. But when the focus is on, like, oh, I'm not feminine enough, because whatever, I need to start doing this practice to be more feminine. He needs to do this practice to be more masculine. I think that helps. But it also creates this construct that I think limits us from our internal union, because we're so focused on being more one way than the other in a way that it might not be the most natural, I think everybody has a natural feminine core or masculine core. And so I think most people are going to express themselves more often in one of those ways, but to the point where it doesn't need to be hyper focused on. Everyone needs to do healing to balance those things in themselves, for sure. But I see, like, a dark side to a lot of the polarity tantra teachings, where it's like, all you need to do is be and just let him ravage you and blah, blah, blah, and then him. It's like, you need to be in charge. You need to take her. You need to show her that you're certain, 100% of the time it puts us in our head more than in our body about what we're doing in order to create attraction. Versus if you focus on that inner union, then the attraction feels very effortless. And all of those pains that we feel around, like codependency or needing the other person to meet our unmet childhood needs and all that kind of stuff, it sort of just goes away because you're so self resourced with that internal union that then anything external is termed, like a bonus.

[40:46] Karin: So when you talk about internal union, are you talking about really making peace with both the feminine and masculine aspects of yourself and what that means for you?

[40:58] Hannah: Yes, absolutely. So I'll give you, like, a practical example, an example of internal union that I can speak to personally. And so somebody might resonate with this, but just kind of like, take the essence of what I'm saying. This is a personal example. In way, way past, let's say, like ten plus years ago, I had already stepped into the sex industry. But there was gaps. There was a year or two gap in the beginning a couple of times where I had kind of OD jobs, sales jobs, different things. And for maybe six months a year of that time, I was so in my masculine, like, 100% of the time, I was first to the office, last to leave. Everything to do with my own beautification and gentleness and self care was nonexistent. It was like, well, this is what I need to do. And discipline, discipline, discipline. And I got a lot of shit done for sure. So my masculine really came in and showed up for me, but it was at the sacrifice of my feminine. And so all of those more gentle, tender, nurturing kind of needs just got totally compartmentalized and disassociated from then. Fast forward, years later, the very beginning of my business, I was super deep brainwashed. In the world of Instagram, pleasure, feminine, business, coaching type of people who are like, every other picture is just a picture of, like, a g spot wand, and they're like, you can fuck yourself to millions and all you need to do is lay around and be sexy and be in your feminine and be feminine and be feminine. And it's like, what the fuck? There's no strategy at all. This doesn't work. And so that was very hard, actually. I kind of gaslit the shit out of myself and disconnected from my masculine power and ability to execute so far to the point I swung so far the other direction that being in my feminine was my only focus. And I didn't do anything. And then I would struggle. I would have financial ups and downs, like, not get shit done, and then feel bad about myself. And it was like it was a loop over here that was going on, denying the other part of myself. And nobody is perfect. I'm not perfect. I'm very much forever going to be integrating and deepening that connection in myself. But in the last couple of years, year especially, I've had a lot of breakthroughs and integration around this, where now I have more capacity to handle those parts of myself in ways that serve me, that allow me to get done what I need to get done and meet my own needs and ask for what I want and be receptive and like all parts, because if you can't be direct and assertive, you might never get what you want. But also, if you can't let go and take it easy and receive, you also might never get what you want. So it's like we have to learn to sort of master those opposite ends in our own ways so that we can balance all the energies we all need.

[44:09] Karin: Yes. And I want to tell you a personal story, but I think it might be helpful to first define feminine and masculine energy, because I don't know that I would have really been able to accurately put a finger on what that really means even 510 years ago.

[44:32] Hannah: So, to me, just the most simple version, feminine is more receptive. I don't want to use the word passive, necessarily, because I think that paints a very limited version of what femininity is, because there's also kali. There's, like, sacred rage, sacred protector, like the mother bear kind of energy that's not passive at all. So there could be a ferocity to feminine energy, but the core of it is receptive. It's receiving everything that life has to give and then doing with it from there. Masculine energy is more penetrating. So, literally, just like our parts, even like plumbing, like a male fitting versus a female fitting. One of them is receptive, one of them is more penetrating. And so that's kind of the gist energetic for me. It's like one of them is more receiving, and one of them is more giving. Yeah, that's, like, the simplest terms.

[45:36] Karin: And then there's a strong creative force for feminine energy as well, right?

[45:43] Hannah: Yes. And so I love that you just said that, because I think this is able to make it more clear from that womb space. And this is true for everybody, but particularly women. Everybody has this energy, but particularly women who are equipped with the body that supports it more. From that womb space, life is created from an empty space. Just like when you have your biggest breakthrough idea, it's oftentimes not coming when you're stuck in traffic. It's coming when you're in stillness, when you have the space and the openness to hear, to think, to have those downloads come through, whatever, to be inspired. And so it's like the essence of feminine creation is receptivity. First, stilling yourself enough to be able to receive either receiving the seed, like in your actual womb, receiving the clarity, the wisdom, the idea, and then creating from there, using all of the power that you have as a woman, or just the feminine energy to drive something forward in that creative way that doesn't need to know what it's going to look like. I've gone down a deep rabbit hole in the free birth world of things, birthing outside the medical system and all this stuff. And one of the women that's a big leader in that area, she says all the time, if we were supposed to see inside of our wombs, they would come with windows. I think that that is like a very poetic kind of way to think about feminine energy. There's a deep sense of trust and surrender about feminine energy and the way that it creates. It doesn't need to know where it's going. It trusts that it's going in the right place.

[47:35] Karin: That sounds like intuition creates life, right? Yeah. Okay. And then I also think of masculine energy also as protecting, defending that energy as well. What other aspects do you think are important to understanding masculine energy?

[47:57] Hannah: I would say the ability to make sense of things, like the opposite of that. So the images that are coming to mind for a woman. Well, I'm saying woman, man. That's not what we're saying. Feminine, masculine, feminine. I'm picturing, like a spirally kind of circle. Like, you can just keep walking and walking, and you may not know where you're going, but somewhere, you're going to get somewhere. At some point, you'll get somewhere, and it's going to be what it is. There's a deep sense of surrender, trust, that intuitive guidance type of thing. On the masculine side of things, I picture it much more like building blocks. It's like you know where you're going. And the masculine is about kind of reverse engineering how to get there. It's about the. How it's slightly different from the feminine creation energy, where it's like there's so much power there. There's so much drive, ability to make things happen, the building. But it's paired with a sense of clarity and linear thinking and tangible groundedness. That is just a very different flavor from that feminine leadership. It's more externally focused, I would say, and very grounded compared to. Not that feminine energy is ungrounded, but the feminine has a special way of grounding in things that are intangible. And the masculine, I think, is more oriented towards tangible things. What can they actually do? What can you do about it? Not just who to pray to or how to manifest and all the other nondescript ways of creating, but the most linear, how focused, systematic type of things. I think that's a very masculine way. Yeah.

[49:44] Karin: And of course, you've alluded to this, but that men and women, we all have combinations of these energies. It's not that men are masculine and women are feminine. We all have a combination of those two. Yes, it's important to embrace those. And that's the story that I was going to say, is that I was raised for a good part of my life by my dad, and I really looked up to him and wanted to be like him. And I was also this gymnast who was super strong, and I didn't want any boy, any man, to ever tell.

[50:26] Hannah: Me what to do.

[50:29] Karin: But I also learned as I got older that I have this generational pattern of women, especially denigrating the other women in the family and putting men on this pedestal. And I realized that I had integrated that and had, without my even realizing it, put down that feminine energy that I do have. And learning to embrace that and seeing the beauty of it and the power of it has been really helpful for me in my life.

[51:11] Hannah: I love that so much. I know we can both relate about that with the single dad raising portion. So I very much relate to really just reiterate the whole masculine, feminine, interunion thing in the most clear terms. I would say the ultimate point of that inner union is to 100% embrace, integrate, and honor those different aspects of yourself where you become almost like, hyper vigilant in a sacred warrior way. Not like a crazy person way, but like, hyper vigilant about finding those pieces in yourself, those moments of thought, moments of feeling where there is a part of you that sees masculine or feminine on different levels, on different playing fields and different dynamics. If you walked into a strip club, for example, there's a very clear power dynamic there depends on which side of it you're on, I guess, how you see it. Who's in charge there? The feminine pole or the masculine pole? And so I think that interunion trajectory is all about ridding those parts of ourself that see it as either or better or worse or more powerful or less powerful, and being able to embrace and honor and value all of those parts of ourselves equally, because then when we have that internal wholeness, we can honor the men and the women in our lives equally. And that's how we heal. So much generational trauma around women being abused by men. And you just, all of a sudden, you hate men, and you can't really understand why. Or men who have been the whole me too thing, and they're scared shitless about advancing on a woman because they don't want to be seen as a creep or perpetrator or something when that's not who they are. There's so much conditioning and trauma that we all carry around, men versus women in our country and in our world. And I think that so much of that is transmutable through that interunion work, because you're learning through your own self how to validate and honor all of those different expressions.

[53:26] Karin: I love that as someone who does parts work and who really helps people to learn to embrace all their parts, that is what can help us experience that inner harmony, less stress, and then bring that outward to others as well. So I really love all of that. So if someone listening to this wanted to dip a toe into the world of tantra or dive in, what would you recommend they do to start learning more about it, or to even start practicing it if they want?

[54:09] Hannah: So my personal two cent on that, you'd get a different answer from every tantra teacher in the world. Connect with the elements with as little instruction as I can give you. That's what I want to say. Because the foundation of the tantra that I practice is very much rooted in the elements. It's kind of a shamanic tradition as well, because that elemental nature. And so I think that starting to explore and build a personal relationship with the elements yourself, that could even just be sitting at your backyard pool and putting your feet in the water and seeing what guidance you get, or seeing what arises in your body or how it feels or what thoughts come up. Just starting to see yourself in the world around you through those connections to nature is a really great place to start.

[54:58] Karin: And remind us those five elements are fire, earth, air, water, space in space, right?

[55:05] Hannah: Yeah.

[55:06] Karin: Okay, great.

[55:07] Hannah: If you want, I can share a little two cent on each of those things. Okay. So fire element is the antidote. So each one of the elements is something you can lean on as an energy, like a guide almost, to help you navigate the human condition. Those things are tried and true that nature is not going to change, it's not going anywhere. And so I think it's so important for us as humans who have a whole crazy, complex experience to lean on those fundamental building blocks of life to really help us stay the course and stay out of the chaos that's so easy for us to find. And so fire element is the antidote to it heals our attachments and our aversions, the things that we want to control that we can't. And so working with the fire element and this, like I do this practice sometimes I have a piece of Palo Santo here. You could light a fucking stick, I'll light it on fire and I just look at it and I just watch it until the flame naturally goes out. It's maybe a 32nd to a 62nd practice. Every single person listening to this has 30 seconds to spare. Some point in the week, and you could turn on the flame on your stove like, it doesn't need to be complicated. But the practice of watching, letting yourself learn from fire and how wisdom is magnetism and discernment. Magnetism only exists when we allow ourselves to be pulled to the things that pull us. When we're attaching to what we want to keep or we're pushing away what we don't want to experience. Our magnetism disappears because we're trying to control it. And so when we can let go of those, control the aversion, the attachment, we become more magnetic in our life and to the right things and more discerning about those things and what's right for us, because we're not driven by our desire to control. That's fire. Earth. I love Earth element. To just connect to a feeling of support, like trust in life, letting yourself feel yourself being held by the planet mother. Earth at the mother kind of figure helps picture that. Like, you're being held literally by a mother that wants you to thrive, that wants you to do well. And so I think anytime we are afflicted with our own worthiness stuff where we're either feeling arrogant, like we're too good for XyZ, or we're not good enough for something, Earth element is really great to connect to, to bring that back into balance and remember that everything is on the same playing field, everything is worthy and all equally and without justification, just like the planet. So there's Earth, space, ether. I use the term space, but I see most people use the term ether. And space is just like I was saying earlier, that creation, well, air is about creation, but that stillness, that all creation comes from that is space. Space is the essence of our interconnectedness of our heart, of being at peace with what is at all times, because you know that you're not separate from it. And so space is a really grounding, but almost like grounding for the soul. It's, like, different than grounding on the Earth. It's like grounding for the soul. Plugging back into that most basic element that all things come from, remembering that you are connected to source at all times and can be at peace with whatever is going on because of that. And it's really helpful when things are not peaceful. So that's space. Air element is the energy of creation. So this is like, I see it represented as, like, an infinity symbol. Air is always around. Every time you've taken a breath in your life, you likely haven't wondered if air was going to be there. It's always everywhere. And so air is a really great antidote to the feelings of lack, scarcity, money, stuff, as well as jealousy, because the essence of jealousy is feeling like, there's not enough for you. Somebody else has more money than you, there's not enough for you. And so that's painful. Your boyfriend must be texting another girl because there's not enough attention for you. And so that jealousy frequency is the frequency of lack. It's the opposite of abundance. And air element can really remind us that we are abundance. We breathe abundance. We are fueled by abundance. Abundance is everywhere. And tapping into the enjoyment that we can find through remembering our creative potential. And then very last is water element, which is the antidote to anger. That makes a lot of sense. You think about anger. You think about, like, hot heat, flame, mad red. You throw some water on that, and it's cooled down immediately. Water is the antidote to anger, frustration, and specifically anger and frustration. That's coming from a lack of clarity. Like, maybe it feels like you're on a path, and every single time you make progress, something else shows up as an issue. And so water helps us connect to that mirror, like wisdom, where we can see things clearly versus the kind of illusion that's like, oh, this obstacle means you're actually stuck, and then you're mad about it, and then you stop moving forward. The antidote to that connecting to water, remembering that there's always a way to keep flowing, to keep going, to move through the obstacle little by little, like the grand Canyon or like a tsunami. It can be titrated in different levels, but the wisdom is the same, that you always have a way through and connecting with water can help you stay plugged into that clarity. Those are the five and how you can work with them. And part of the homework there is to let it be weird. Let yourself feel weird and talk to the plants and talk to the water and look around, make sure no one's seeing you. Let it be weird. It's fine. It'll stop soon.

[01:01:20] Karin: Yeah, that gives me a lot of clarity about Tantra and what it's about and what it's based in. So thank you for that. Okay, so I'm curious. I usually ask people, what role does love play in the work that you do? But I already asked you that last time, so I have a different question to ask. And that is, what kind of books, podcasts, blogs are you into? And this could be around Tantra, or.

[01:01:58] Hannah: It could be something completely different podcast wise. The only podcast I think I've listened to this year so far has been freebirth society. Because like I said, I'm going down a rabbit hole of free birth stuff. Some part of me is preparing for motherhood. We'll see. I don't know, but stuff about pregnancy and birth outside the medical system has really been empowering and catching my attention. And then books, I've been feeling a very strong pull to old leather, sticky type books that I'm able to find in thrift stores that are all slightly different, the ones I've come across, but they're all under the same umbrella of basically everything we've talked about in this conversation. Christ, consciousness, the interconnectedness of everything, that source, unity, kind of vibe. And most of the books are written by men in the. It's amazing how many of these things are just repeated in different ways by all of these different people, and it just reinforces that truth, that knowing. So I've really been enjoying that kind of stuff.

[01:03:11] Karin: Is there one that stands out?

[01:03:13] Hannah: Three magic words. I think it's by us. Marshall, I think, is the name I want to say. The book was originally written in the. Actually listened to a Wayne Dyer, like, five minute long guided meditation before I went to sleep for probably six months straight when I first started meditating, I couldn't handle silence. I would just do guided stuff, and I would do that every night. And it was probably six months of daily listening before I actually heard it. That in the meditation he mentioned, he says something like, and from the words of the book, three magic words, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and says something. And I was like, I'm going to get the book. And I looked it up and it's an insane, powerful, very transformational book. It's called three magic words. It's life changing, wonderful.

[01:04:00] Karin: Oh, I love it. I love it.

[01:04:02] Hannah: Yeah.

[01:04:03] Karin: And how can people learn more about you?

[01:04:07] Hannah: Instagram is the best place to find [e-mail]. If you have any private questions that you're not on social media, you can email me hannahspanke at gmail. And my website is being redone for a second time in the last year. And so domain may be changing and everything, so that is to be decided. But Instagram is the best place for now.

[01:04:31] Karin: Hannah, thank you so much for taking us all on this journey of learning about Tantra. I learned a lot, and I'm guessing that a lot of other people did, too. So thank you.

[01:04:42] Hannah: Thank you so much for having me.

Outro

[01:04:46] Karin: Thanks for joining us today on Love Is Us. If you like the show, I would so appreciate it if you left me a review. If you have questions and would like to follow me on social media, you can find me on Instagram, where I'm “theloveandconnectioncoach”. Special thanks to Tim Gorman for my music, Aly Shaw for my artwork, and Ross Burdick for tech and editing assistance. Again, I'm so glad you joined us today, because the best way to bring more love into your life and into the world is to be love. The best way to be love is to love yourself and those around you. Let's learn and be inspired together.