Episode 7: The Butcher

This Is The Way: Chinese Philosophy Podcast

Certain allegories and myths offer profound philosophical insights. In the West, Plato's Allegory of the Cave occupies a key role in the history of philosophy with its marvelous representation of the quest for knowledge and the distinction between illusion and reality. In the East, Zhuangzi's story of the butcher, "Cook Ding" has for over two millennia served as one of the most memorable and stunning illustrations of the Daoist conception of the Way.
In this episode we are delighted to be joined by Professor Karyn Lai to discuss this remarkable passage from the Zhuangzi. In the course of the conversation we discuss a number of issues including:
• What could it mean for the butcher's performance is "beyond technique"?
• Is this really an example of "effortless action"? Specifically, is it really "effortless"?
• When the ruler proclaims that he's learned from the butcher "how to care for life," is the author spoofing the ruler?
We would also like to note that Professor Lai is the co-author of the Classical Chinese Philosophy section of Peter Adamson's excellent podcast, History of Philosophy Without Gaps. The link to it is here. You may also find more information about Professor Lai and her numerous publications here.
Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.
We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.
Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

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1. Part I -- Introduction (00:00:00)

2. • Preface to today’s guest and topic (00:12:26)

3. Part II -- The Zhuangzi's Butcher (00:16:43)

4. • Introducing Karyn Lai (00:16:44)

5. • Justin previews the butcher passage (00:18:35)

6. • Justin reads the butcher passage (00:21:18)

7. • Section 1: the butcher "dances" (00:25:14)

8. • Section 2: the butcher describes his technique (which goes beyond technique) (00:33:30)

9. • Section 3: how the butcher handles difficulty (00:56:01)

10. • Section 4: the ruler's takeaway ("caring for life") (01:06:57)

11. • Closing questions for our guest (01:26:55)