302: Why Should I Even Bother to Vote?

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Welcome to Out of the Question, a podcast that looks behind some common questions and uncovers the question behind the question while providing real solutions for biblical world and life view. Your host is Andrea Swartz, a teacher and mentor and founder of the Calcedon Teacher Training Institute.

Thanks for tuning in to this edition of Out of the Question. How many times have you heard recently, this year, 2024 is the most consequential election in our country’s history. And not just one political party or news pundits repeat this, we hear it over and over. The propaganda machines are oiled and running as Christians are cornered into thinking that if they don’t have clear godly choices, maybe they just shouldn’t vote at all. My guest today, Ricardo Davis, is here to answer the question, Why should I even bother to vote? Ricardo has a long and impressive resume as a political activist dating back to 1984, where he has been active in the Constitution Party of Georgia and your right to life, among other things. He is active in seeing to it that voter integrity is maintained and is relentless in identifying that our only true hope is in obedience to God’s law word. He also happens to be a husband and a father. Thanks, Ricardo, for joining me today.

You are so welcome. And again, I’m honored to be here, Andre. I’ve been a fan of the podcast for quite a while.

All right. Well, thank you for that. Now, when we discussed having you on the program, you told me that you wanted to emphasize the principle of the voters’ accountability. You said that the voter is accountable to the Lord to obey him regarding the selection of our representatives, although there are many hindrances and roadblocks to exercising that prerogative. What did you mean by that?

Well, there’s the hindrance is one being in the choices we have. There’s one, and then there’s the hindrance of the selection process itself. This is one of those areas where I do believe the message of calcium that is to actually take responsibility and build will hopefully have more traction as we enter into this season of our nation and our community’s history. It’s very accurate.

You also pointed out that one option most pastors and pundens omit is that if you aren’t represented by a particular political party or organization, then you must take some level of responsibility to build something that promotes biblical morals and ethics with an eye to the future. In other words, you don’t have good choices now, grow them.

Yes, I’m 60 now, so I’ve seen a lot of politics in my lifetime. One thing that I’ve realized pretty early is that if you just allow the system to make your selections for you and you don’t take an active role in the process of getting to those selections, nothing will change.

Agreed. Now, you are definitely not a Johnny come lately. I looked at your resume, we go back to the mid ’80s. So we’re talking 40 years and maybe interspersed through all that or other things that you didn’t even list on the resume. But here’s the thing. A lot of people have this wake up. Oh, man, We’re not doing things the way we should. Then they think it’s like a half hour TV program, a 60 minute TV program. We’re going to get this done right here and now. Why is that really dooming people to be frustrated, disappointed, and then giving up?

Well, because there’s very little satisfaction when you look at the process in that constrained time frame. For example, people are looking right now just in the current presidential election. We haven’t even gotten to the election yet. The Republicans champion, which a lot of Christians, and especially our pro-life folks, have been out there saying, Oh, we got to vote. It seems the further we get into the campaign, the more disappointing the Republican nominee has Then it raises questions. I think what we need to do is we need to take the long view. I would say, again, one of the things I’ve learned from Dr. Rush doing in, the folks there at Cal Seedon, is when we take the multi-generational view, in other words, are my actions today helping build something so that my grandchildren and great grandchildren can not only receive the fruit of, but carry it forward. That is the mindset that I am trying to bring into the world of political action.

Now, it’s so easy for people to say, Well, what good has that done? 1984, 40 years, what’s been accomplished? Well, without the work and the foundational principles that you laid, would we have such a stark antithesis of the party, for example, that wants to kill children, maim children, make sure that they can’t reproduce? Then the other party, now, we don’t have to say, Look, they took certain things out of their platform, but there still is a stark difference. They’re not going around saying, Let’s kill children. That’s our hope. That’s our future. Let’s mutilate them. If people don’t see that as part and parcel of work that people like you have done for the past 40 years, then they’re missing it because the tears are showing themselves to be what they are. I mean, for goodness’ sake. They are, exactly. At first, I thought it was a Babylon bee thing that at the DNC Convention, that they had a bus out there offering vasectomies and chemical abortions. I was like, Whoa, that’s funny, only to discover it was true. I think the term is called epistemological self-consciousness.

Self-consciousness?

Yeah, that’s it. They’re not hiding it anymore. They’re running on it. What pushed that antithesis if it wasn’t the likes of people like you?

We definitely have been able to put a dent But I think part of the challenge, Andrea, is that in the face of, how did King Théodem put it, such reckless hate, we tend to back up and say, Oh, wow, I didn’t expect this. This is part of what it means to stand as a soldier of Christ. In other words, when the Bible exhorts us to not be afraid of sudden terror, well, it’s the expectation of, yes, in a wicked, broken world, it will rear its head.

Right. What’s so surprising about pagans acting like pagans, people who hate life acting as those who hate life? I think there’s this naiveté that says, yes, we’re willing to fight But only if the fight is quick because I’m just getting too tired.

Ricardo, are you tired?

You’ve been doing this for almost 40 years. Are you tired?

Actually, I’m more encouraged now more than ever.

Now, that may seem crazy to people. You tell me why. Why are you more encouraged now than ever?

Well, you put a part of it out there. In other words, back in 2022, when Georgia Right to Life had its annual big fundraising event, the big dinner down in Atlanta. One of the things that I was able to communicate was that one of the primary objectives of the pro-life movement that many of us didn’t see that there would be any movement on, that is the wicked precedent set by the Roe v Wade decision, that we would see it come down in our lifetime. But yet and still, that one big rock didn’t just get moved. It got flucked up by the roof and thrown into the sea.

Some people, and this is, I think it’s really important, and I’m glad you brought it up, would say, Yeah, but there’s still abortion that happens in our country. Well, yes, we know that. We knew that the problem with Roe v Wade was that a Supreme Court decision set law, which it never did, but people took it that way. Why Why are people unwilling to take the small victories? Why does it only count if it’s a huge victory?

Well, again, you have those that essentially don’t see the world for what it is. In other words, just like our salvation, once we are converted, then there’s the long walk, the long faithfulness, the ups and downs of life, the struggles that we all go through. We assume that, well, that may be the case in an individual life, but it doesn’t work that way in politics. It’s like we flip the switch and everything’s okay, and that’s just not realistic.

Nor is it cognizant of God’s plan that the Kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdoms of the Lord and of Christ. If you’re just in it for you, if you’re just in it so that, okay, I’ll be active for a little bit so that I can say I’m doing my part. It really isn’t about our part. It’s about the Kingdom of God. So does abortion have any place in a righteous society?

No.

Does homosexuality have any place in a righteous society?

Does the abrogation of the law of God have any place in a righteous society? The The answer is no, no, no, no, no, no.

Right. So some people think it’s a political battle, primarily we’re in. But I think in a lot of ways, it’s a battle within the church because You have people who are focusing on the need for personal salvation, but they don’t believe that God can save a nation. They don’t believe that God can save a culture. And part of that is they wanted to be Abracadabra as opposed to, Oh, guess what? We are the vehicles in order to produce that.

Well, yeah. And there may be some theological and eschatological things in play here that lead to that understanding. However, it just isn’t the case. You can’t even look at the history of God’s moving through history in and through his people and see that that’s the case.

A lot of people will say, Voting isn’t in the Bible, and democracy is not God’s way of doing things. He wants representative government, blah, blah, blah, blah, believers who would stand on righteous positions to get them not to vote? Is that part of the propaganda?

Oh, that’s a big part of the problem. And quite frankly, Andrea, that wouldn’t work if the men of God were preaching the whole counsel of God to the people of God. The fact that there’s such a spirit of timidity, quite frankly, in the pullpits to address these things as they present themselves in scripture. Again, in one sense, they don’t want people to look at even broaching the subject as, Oh, now he’s gone political. No, just preach the whole Council of God. Deuteronomy 1, Choose wise and discerning and experience men from your tribes. This is a command. I do like it that in the Pentateuch, it comes across not as, Oh, the national leaders, oh, the senators, the congressmen. I mean, it gets down to thousands, hundreds, and fifties, and tens.

In God’s economy, our responsibility to choose those who will exercise civil justice are much closer to us in God’s economy.

And we can talk a little bit more about how that really does need to be recovered as God’s people strengthen themselves and armor themselves in the full armor of God.

Indeed. You make a really good point. People will know who’s running for president. They may know who’s running for senator or congress. I would dare say a lot of people don’t even know the name of the mayor of their city.

Yeah, or in Georgia, we have counties, and then the administrators of the county’s business or the board of commissioners. How many people know who, not just the name, but Are they acquainted with the man or woman who represents them in the government that is closest to them?

I’ve always thought it would be a great practice to invite, we call them supervisors out here, county supervisors in California or in the city government, the district councilman or something like that. Why aren’t you asking them out for coffee? Why aren’t you getting to know them? Why don’t you know the dates of their kid’s birthday or their birthday so you can send them a birthday card? In other words, we think it all depends on this national level. Quite frankly, most of us will never talk to the person who inhabits the White House.

The White House. But the man who’s essentially responsible for the administration of government right where you live, you can drive to his house.

And the way that I think a lot of leaders get this idea of becoming elite, I don’t know that they all start off that way. I think a lot of them probably start off with a desire to serve. But when they’re treated as though they are part of this elite group and not regular people, then it’s very easy to then take the stepping stone and, okay, I was the mayor, now I can be the assemblyman. Now I can be the congressman or whatever. They get more and more distant from the people and closer to the elite, which It is part of the problem we have in all parts of our nation.

True. In one sense, Andrew, we like it like that. Otherwise, we wouldn’t pay more attention to what’s happening in our own county.

Yeah. A lot of Christians, and again, the propaganda machine made sure they knew this, that the Republican National Committee took abortion out of its platform. Now, my first thought, and maybe I’m cynical, was like, Okay, well, it’s been in the platform for a long time, and is there a lot of movement in terms of, on the local level, stopping abortion at a local level.

See, now this is one of my favorite subjects right here. The question becomes if our pro-life friends are dismayed at what happened at the Republican National Committee’s platform committee, which, quite frankly, it was a travesty. It was not representative of the delegates who were there, who took the time and expense to get there for the platform committee, and they pretty much just were given something that they had the rubber stamp. However, what can you do here where you live? For example, in Georgia, what Georgia Rides to Life is doing is We’re looking to build a culture that respects the personhood of all the souls in that community as the cornerstone for advancing personhood as the right to life for every innocent person. We do this through what… One angle of how we do this is through the Georgia’s Ending Abortion Coalition, where we’re not looking for endorsements from our coalition building with all these national groups. We’re doing this with individuals and organizations and even local political parties at the local level, the city and the county level.

Glad you brought that up because I have a funny story years ago, and I’m thinking now maybe it’s 10 or 15 years ago. There was a mayoral race in San Jose where I live, and the candidates were coming door to door. That was good. I I asked each one of them, What’s your position on abortion? The answer, first and foremost was, Well, this isn’t a partisan race, Democrat versus Republican. I said, I didn’t ask you if you were a Democrat or Republican. I asked you, What’s your position on abortion? At first, both candidates were hemming and hawing, and then at the end said, Well, this really isn’t an issue for the cities because we have to take our instruction from the state and federal government. I said, I don’t think you have to. Well, now the person was getting uncomfortable and then said, I believe in a woman’s right to choose. He didn’t even leave his brochure. I guess he figured, I’ll save this for someone. But we have to be able to see that this is, yes, it’s not a partisan issue. It’s really a matter of justice. It’s a justice issue.

Oh, and to the point you’re making, now, I just happen to have nearby, of course, this is audio, so people can’t see it, but I have a copy of Matt Truella’s, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates here. What you’re bringing up is so crucial, and I believe very few people who are involved in the fight for life, whether it be on the abortion end, whether it be on the euthanasia, wherever. They don’t understand the dynamic here. The way God has ordered society, it is the responsibility of that man who was running for that local office. That if what happens in Sacramento is unrighteous, then that man running for mayor or that man running for supervisor, it’s his responsibility to be the bulwark to protect the people from injustice.

You brought up the idea of personhood, and I had to look back in my records, but in 2011, I interviewed Daniel Becker, who was part of Georgia Right to Life. And the issue- My predecessor, yeah. And the issue was personhood. Why is it better to frame the issue in terms of personhood rather than babies?

Well, specifically because from Dan’s perspective, his generation, when they got involved in the pro-life movement, it wasn’t because, per se, child sacrifice was barbaric, but it was because of a recognition that because that child in the womb is a person, it is a living human being endowed by its creator with certain unalienable rights, that they got involved. That ideal of coming to the word of God, Coming to the law of God and then seeing what the law of God prescribes with regard to the rights of people, doesn’t just take care of what I call the Big Three in the Pro-Life Movement, Abortion, Infanticide, and euthanasia. But let’s take a hot topic that’s going on right now, in vitro fertilization. The very year you had that interview with Dan Becker, I was actually working in Mississippi and helping out the personhood Mississippi team with an initiative basically to amend Mississippi’s Constitution to recognize the personhood of all human beings. Wouldn’t you know? Well, actually, I’m doing this in hindsight now. We expected the pushback from National Abortion Rights Action League, Planned Parenthood action. We were expecting pushback from all those courts. But you know what we didn’t expect?

We didn’t expect that the in vitro fertilization lobby in Mississippi would spend millions of dollars against Initiative 26. That was the amendment that was on the ballot. Quite frankly, that was the beginning of my education. I mean, I understood what the process was for in vitro fertilization, but I didn’t understand the business of in vitro fertilization, which at that time was completely unregulated, and for the most part is around the country. It’s unregulated. The fact that, oh, well, in order to get the biggest bang for the buck, you get as many eggs as you can, you fertilize as many of them as you can, and you start implanting. Once the couple is done with as many children as they want, then they just discard any that or they donate them to science. All that egregious behavior, essentially, it is the commodification of humans. We are treating these tiny humanlike properties. Quite frankly, especially on… Because one of the big things Dan would talk about back in the 2000s is just all of the egregious research happening at the state and the national level on these children that were created and then experimented on. The fact that right now, the IVF conversation is coming back around, and let’s just say we know a little more about what’s happening.

Again, here’s our incremental advance. We are actually getting the chance to connect with people. It’s like, Oh, well, if you’re going to quote Psalm 139 and say, Oh, well, if God knitted me in my mother’s womb, then if human, if the doctor tries to reproduce the process outside, is it any less human? And if it isn’t, then what does ethical treatment of those humans mean? And did you know what actually happens in those IVF claims? I believe we do have an opportunity. People talk about, well, even when they talk about you bad, when they badmouth you, if it’s on the front page of the big newspaper, you at least have an opportunity. Exactly. To make something of it. Well, that’s what the personhood movement, the personhood alliance, the organization that Dan Becker helped found to be the antithesis to the National Rights of Life organization. We’re taking advantage of the opportunity right now.

Yeah. I think it goes back to, if you don’t look at every area of life and thought, as Dr. Ashtun used to say, through a biblical lens, you’re going to accept things that later, when you find out would horrify you. I don’t know, you said you were a fan of the podcast, but I have had a doctor on who talked about what it’s like with organ donations. Oh, yes. Heidi Klesig is her name. Yes. I Now, a lot of people, when they listened to it, they were like, We had no idea that’s what took place. Now, will that mean anything to someone who doesn’t honor the word of God? Well, maybe, but not at the same way it should mean something