S3E11: 'Decision-Making Governance & Design: Combating Dark Patterns with Fair Patterns' with Marie Potel-Saville (Amurabi & FairPatterns)

The Shifting Privacy Left Podcast

In this episode, Marie Potel-Saville joins me to shed light on the widespread issue of dark patterns in design. With her background in law, Marie founded the 'FairPatterns' project with her award-winning privacy and innovation studio, Amurabi, to detect and fix large-scale dark patterns. Throughout our conversation, we discuss the different types of dark patterns, why it is crucial for businesses to prevent them from being coded into their websites and apps, and how designers can ensure that they are designing fair patterns in their projects.

Dark patterns are interfaces that deceive or manipulate users into unintended actions by exploiting cognitive biases inherent in decision-making processes. Marie explains how dark patterns are harmful to our economic and democratic models, their negative impact on individual agency, and the ways that FairPatterns provides countermeasures and safeguards against the exploitation of people's cognitive biases. She also shares tips for designers and developers for designing and architecting fair patterns.
Topics Covered:

• Why Marie shifted her career path from practicing law to deploying and lecturing on Legal UX design & combatting Dark Patterns at Amurabi
• The definition of ‘Dark Patterns’ and the difference between them and ‘deceptive patterns’
• What motivated Marie to found FairPatterns.com and her science-based methodology to combat dark patterns
• The importance of decision making governance
• Why execs should care about preventing dark patterns from being coded into their websites, apps, & interfaces
• How dark patterns exploit our cognitive biases to our detriment
• What global laws say about dark patterns
• How dark patterns create structural risks for our economies & democratic models
• How "Fair Patterns" serve as countermeasures to Dark Patterns
• The 7 categories of Dark Patterns in UX design & associated countermeasures
• Advice for designers & developers to ensure that they design & architect Fair Patterns when building products & features
• How companies can boost sales & gain trust with Fair Patterns
• Resources to learn more about Dark Patterns & countermeasures

Guest Info:

• Connect with Marie on LinkedIn
• Learn more about Amurabi
• Check out FairPatterns.com

Resources Mentioned:

• Learn about the 7 Stages of Action Model
• Take FairPattern's course: Dark Patterns 101
• Read Deceptive Design Patterns
• Listen to FairPatterns' Fighting Dar

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1. S3E11: 'Decision-Making Governance & Design: Combating Dark Patterns with Fair Patterns' with Marie Potel-Saville (Amurabi & FairPatterns) (00:00:00)

2. Introducing Marie Potel-Saville, CEO & Founder at Amurabi and Founder of FairPatterns.com (00:01:54)

3. How Marie moved from a career practicing law to a focus on legal UX and combatting dark patterns (00:03:25)

4. Marie tells us about Amurabi, her legal design firm, and what she means by "innovation by design" (00:06:50)

5. Marie explains her motivation behind founding FairPatterns and her science-based methodology to combat dark patterns (00:12:12)

6. Why business execs should generally care about preventing dark patterns from being coded into their websites and apps and interfaces (00:18:06)

7. How dark patterns exploit our cognitive biases to our detriment (00:21:05)

8. What global laws say about dark patterns (00:24:35)

9. How dark patterns create structural risks for our economies and then, ultimately, our democratic models (00:28:28)

10. Marie defines "fair patterns" and explains the benefits to using them as countermeasures to dark patterns (00:32:35)

11. Marie's advice for designers & developers to ensure that they design fair patterns as they build products & features (00:44:06)

12. How companies can boost sales, gain customer trust, and increase privacy and agency by using fair patterns (00:46:59)

13. Marie shares resources on where to learn more about dark patterns and their countermeasures (00:49:45)