MMT50 - 215

Meeting Malkmus - a Pavement podcast

This week on the pod, jD sits down with Ross to discuss his Pavement origin story and reveal track 15.

Transit:

Track 2:

[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. Coming in at number 16, it's Fill More Jive. It's the third song from Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, behind Stop Breathing at 28 and Cut Your Hair at 21. So this song actually beats Cut Your Hair, which is, I don't know, is that surprising? Is that surprising to you? You no i'd rather pick bill more jive over over cut your hair but i mean cut your hair is the pop song so yeah yeah that's why i was surprised it wouldn't be in the top five or something i was you know just looking at the spotify uh the spotify plays you know uh-huh cut your hair is like way up there and bill more jive is not right right so is is it do you consider it like a deep cut like when you guys went to it on the most recent tour was it um was it a deeper cut in the bag of songs that you brought yeah i say a deeper cut because i don't think we we did it in 2010, okay and we hadn't done it for years in the 90s like i think we did it in 94 and maybe they did it with Gary too before me.

Track 2:

[1:23] So I would say it's a deep cut live, but in terms of, you know, records, you know, for people to really enjoy, it's a pretty great number.

Track 3:

[1:46] Hey, it's Shady here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for sentimental indie rock band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and an abacus for dummies book. How will your favorite song fare in the rankings? Well, you'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by Pavement superfan, Ross from Fife. How the fuck are you doing, Ross from Fife? I'm good. Good from Fife.

Track 3:

[2:24] Excellent. This is good news. It's always nice to talk pavement with somebody, especially when they're doing well. Well, I don't get enough chances here to talk about anything pavement, so. Well, we're going to do that right now. Let's hear your pavement origin story. Story um well the very first time i heard pavement and this only came back to me in the last couple of weeks uh as i was thinking about you know this interview um and either it was either late 99 or early 2000s my high school girlfriend put major leagues on a mixtape you remember when you used to make mixtapes for you know for sure for your crush or your significant other at the time or whatever yeah she she made me a mixtape with uh major leaks and i i liked it it didn't set me off on my journey or anything you know but that's that's the first time i'm definitely aware of having heard Pavement. Right. A couple of years later, one of my friends.

Track 3:

[3:38] It was right about the time of, like, Eminem was huge. Dr. Dre had just released 2001. Yeah. Snoop Dogg was big. One of my friends flipped almost overnight from being an indie rock fan to a hip-hop fan. Oh, wild. So, yeah, I guess he was giving away his old CDs that he didn't listen to anymore or whatever. And he gave me Terror Twilight. It was a... I can't remember if he thought, right, Ross would like this or if he was just getting rid of it, you know? Yeah. But it really took me by surprise. I really liked it.

Track 3:

[4:27] At the time I was technically homeless. I wasn't living on the streets or whatever. I was crashing on people's couches. I was going through the sort of system like halfway houses and whatever. So I didn't have much possessions. but one of the one things I did have was Terror Twilight, and I would listen to it all the time while playing my Nintendo Game Boy or whatever and, it kind of felt like a it felt like a secret you know like my secret, because I'd never met another single living soul who had heard of Not just the album, but the band. I remember round about, it would have been the back end of 2001.

Track 3:

[5:28] Just pre-9-11, which seems weird, but that's the way that I remember this particular. I was on a lunch break at my first job, and I read a review of the first Malcolm A Soul album.

Track 3:

[5:49] And the review spent more time talking about Pavement than it did, you know, his new band, basically stating that, you know, these guys are legends, just they didn't get their due or whatever. No, I agree with that. So, yeah, a year later or whatever, I've got Terra Twilight, I love it. These guys are such enigmas to me you know this is before I was on the internet I couldn't Wikipedia them, I couldn't you know, there was no YouTube, stuff like that and by the way all this is, well some of this is on your 17th or 18th episode Krelvid User, you read out my letter oh gosh I had totally forgotten about that I remember I have a terrible memory you asked for submissions because back then a lot of the songs were quite short or even non-existent so yeah I got day drunk one day.

Track 3:

[7:10] I'd been out with colleagues and I thought I'm going to write JD a letter and tell him how I yeah so.

Track 3:

[7:20] My next the next part of the story is, I knew about the re-releases I think at some point, I don't know why I bought Sebado 3, the re-release of that album and, the album on the front it had a sticker with some sort of blurb from a music journalist saying that, This album, along with Pavement, created the blueprint for American indie. Jesus, high praise. Again, that just put it in my head. And I didn't even like Sebado Free that much. I quite like the band altogether, but I don't think it's a great album. So round about that time we're still talking about 2002 3, 4 maybe I don't have a great memory either, I go to Glasgow to watch a British band Rubin, I don't think they're around.

Track 3:

[8:30] Anymore but their first couple of albums were pretty good we go to King Tut's Wawa Hut, which is quite a famous venue because it's where uh oasis got signed by creation really yeah oh cool um it's a tiny place you can only fit you know two three hundred people in it maybe even then that might be a fire hazard uh but even before before the gigs played and the the venue's underground, it's like in a basement, before the gig me and a couple of friends are upstairs and I'm going through the jukebox, they've got one of these sort of.

Track 3:

[9:20] They're old fashioned now, but at the time they were quite modern, the jukeboxes where the album covers flip over in front of you, you know? Yeah. And I find a pavement, Slandered and Enchanted, and it's like, oh, that's that band, that's Territorial, you know, I keep hearing about them. So I stick five songs on, don't even hear them because, you know, the bar's so crowded, so noisy. But still it sticks in my head I want to learn more you know so a short time after that, I'm shopping locally in the nearest sort of large town.

Track 3:

[10:09] And I go into MVC it's a I don't know if it was an offshoot of HMV. I don't know if you've got any of this in Canada or not. You did have HMV at one time. Yeah, but they're all gone now anyway. And I find a copy of the Crooked Rain re-release. Okay. But it's like £25 or something. I was making decent money at the time. I had my first proper well-paying job. I had disposable income I was no longer homeless, But I'm not going to spend £25 on this CD I've got no idea if it's good or it's bad There's like 50 tracks So I know I'm probably going to get some sort of value for money.

Track 3:

[11:06] I leave. I think nothing else of it. About half an hour later, I go around the corner, and there's this independent record store sleeves. People in Fife will mourn it forever. It's gone now as well, as most independent record stores probably are. But in there, I find a copy of the re-release for £5. What? yeah it's a bit battered it's a bit broken as I think all pavement records should be, but yeah no questions asked I immediately buy it.

Track 3:

[11:52] I read on the bus home I read the, sort of the booklet that comes with it which just the whole time it's just adding to the mystique you know because I think Malkmus writes, I think it's from an old like, article he writes like an explanation for each song and it's never quite clear if he's just taking the piss or not, he says about stop breathing is a bit of a tennis match I was like, why wouldn't it be, you know? So, yeah, that night, the Saturday night, it burned in my memory. I mentioned this in the Creelvid user video as well.

Track 3:

[12:46] All my friends are going out on the town which was never an exciting occasion, but this night especially I put my foot down and said I'm not coming out I've got to paint a wall which I did, I had a wall to paint in my living room or wherever but my main reason for staying in was I wanted to listen to Crooked Ruin, Wow So I get everything ready I get A couple of beers ready Like take a couple of bong hits Or whatever I used to do that by then.

Track 3:

[13:28] And I get the I get the CD ready And the stereo you know And as soon as I switch it on I'm just transfixed, Like The intro to Silent Kid Or Silent Kit whatever they call it is still one of the most exciting pieces of music to me. It's fucking spectacular. Yeah, but I'd never heard a band do that. I know they've got a reputation of not giving a fuck, and a lot of bands tried to affect that feeling back then, but this is the first time I'd ever truly heard it. Yeah, yeah. Just the build-up and you hear them talking to each other and it's like, we're just going to leave that in? And it's like, yeah, of course we are. That's the recording, you know. And I just sat down on the edge of the couch, just staring at the stereo.

Track 3:

[14:35] And then every song after that just added to the... It was... Yeah, it was the most exciting night of music I've ever had. Oh, Jesus, that gives me goosebumps. And for, like, a good maybe six months after that, I think it's all I listened to. Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain. And of course there was a lot to listen to because it was the re-release so I got all the.

Track 3:

[15:10] I got all the demos of B-Sides as well and this was, perhaps, you could call it their golden era you know it had another one of my favourite pavement tracks Grounded, it had the demo of that so you got like a sort of, you know a sneak peek of what was to come, but yeah after that I think all my friends got sick of me, talking about pavement going on about pavement and it still happens quite a lot these days, you'd hear a new song on the radio and I'd say that's just a fucking pavement rip off, you know it still happens to this day I hear a song and I think, nah, you're the biggest band in Britain just now, probably, or Wet Lake, you heard them? No, I've not. Oh, they went really viral a couple of years ago with their first video, which is She's Long. Yeah. But yeah, they're big. They're quite popular in my work. I'll run Night Shift. Sometimes the radio sucks. Sometimes it's pretty cool.

Track 3:

[16:33] But yeah, they were getting played in the radio quite a bit. I went and listened to their album. And the final track on the album is called Supermarket. Okay. And I'm not going to call it a pavement ripoff, but it's definitely pavement inspired. Really? Yeah. It's like they sat down and thought, like, let's write a pavement song, you know? Not rip off a Pavement song, but let's write an homage. Yeah. You can go and check it out afterwards. It's kind of Wally's Alley-ish. Huh. But yeah. What's your go-to record at this point? Oh, that's always going to be Crooked Rain. Yeah? Always. Just because of those memories? Because of the night it blew me away, you know? Yeah. Second, I would say, was Slanted. That's the record I came to next.

Track 3:

[17:27] Believe it or not, probably my least favorite, and there is no least favorite, it's still a pavement record. Probably the one I go to least is Wowie. Oh, yeah? And I think that's just because that's the one I came to last. Right.

Track 3:

[17:46] But yeah, I was thinking of weird pavement stuff to tell you. After all, the very first time I listened to WALL-E, or not the first time I listened to it, but probably my favorite song on WALL-E is Father.

Track 3:

[18:04] Father to a Sister of Thought. Fucking brilliant song, yeah. And in that song, they mention Corpus Christi. Right. Right. The very first time I heard that song, I was driving my car. And they mentioned the Corpus Christi part. And straight away, I receive a phone call from my dad who was working in Corpus Christi. Get out of here. Yeah, seriously. That's fucked. He was in Texas, and he phones me, and I've just heard this Corpus Christi line. Like, what the hell? and I didn't even pull over to take the phone call, which is technically illegal. Well, I'm going to turn you in. Another thing is it was weird with pavement. Once I knew of them, once I... Go into them i saw them everywhere it's like oh yeah it's like when you've never heard a word before and you hear a new word and suddenly you just hear it everywhere you know right um so yeah the other sort of weird kind of thing is uh a couple years after that i'm moved to.

Track 3:

[19:26] They call it a city it's not really a city dundee in scotland not a nice not a nice place, so I'd start sort of dating this girl I can't even remember if we were dating at the time, she was a bit weird I realised far too late that she was highly autistic but we were math students so that comes to the territory, and one of the weirdest things about her is she was obsessed with this cartoon from the 90s, Space Ghost. Okay, yeah. So one day we go out for coffee, and just before we go to the coffee shop, I go and buy the Bright in the Corners re-release. And what are the last two songs on it? Space Ghost. Space Ghost theme, yeah. I think that made her like me more, you know. So it went in my favor. Nicely done. Well, what do you say we get into listening to track number 15? What is that? Well, we're not going to tell you until after this break. Okay. All right, we'll be right back.

Track 2:

[20:53] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening, and now on with a countdown.

Track 3:

[25:25] And there it is at track 15 from Wowie Zowie, Rattled by the Rush. What are your thoughts on Rattled by the Rush, Ross, from Fife? Well, I already said since I came to it last, Wowie's not my jam.

Track 3:

[25:47] I love it. It's still a pavement album. It's never the one that I go to. Right. and Rattled by the Rush might be the last pavement hit that I actually heard. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't think I heard it until at some point in the early 2000s. I bought, I can't remember what it's called now, the DVD. Slow Century. Slow Century, yeah. Yeah. I think maybe that's the first time I ever heard it. Oh because they showed the video on that right yeah I can't remember if it's the proper video or not I know that they had to re-release the video because it was making people sick, people used to be such fucking pussies, yeah um and I don't dislike the song or anything um if it's number 15 that's kind of surprising it wasn't in my top 20 No. It probably would be in my top 50. Okay. It sounds like I'm hating here. I'm not hating. No. At all.

Track 3:

[27:07] Well, you definitely think it's overrated at 15, so that's... Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Definitely. The most interesting thing is obviously the lyrics. It's like a typical sort of malchemist crossword yeah I would agree with that I took a few notes, the opening line oh that I could bend my tongue outwards leave your lungs hurting.

Track 3:

[27:42] Could be sexual. Could be? It could also pertain to that tongue trick thing where people can fold their tongue up, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did a little research and apparently 73% of adults can do it. I cannot do it. I can't either, but I've learned that you can teach yourself to do it. Oh, really? yeah i was i i work night shift so you've got to find ways to pass the time yeah exactly um and that was a thing that was going about work a couple of years ago everybody asking can can you do it can you not and i can't do it but i have learned that you can teach yourself but you haven't taught yourself well I, I got I got halfway there but I forgot to keep like doing it you know gotcha it was it was never, maybe if I put it together for a pavement song that would have helped.

Track 3:

[28:53] Yeah after that we've got leave your lungs hurting tuck in my shirt and pints I wear so well cross your t-shirt smell well, that's just good malchus wordplay, right? Yeah. Maybe there's a specific meaning. Obviously, there's a theme there, clothing.

Track 3:

[29:16] After that, we come on to the best line in the song, maybe the best line in Pavement's entire discography, caught my dad crying. Yes. I wrote down here maybe it's better we don't know what it means yeah I mean I don't think for a single second Malcolm has walked in on his dad crying, but just the imagery the thoughts it's, The crucial word is caught. He could have said, saw my dad crying. He could have said, found my dad crying. But he says caught. Right. Like it's a bad thing, you know.

Track 3:

[30:03] So, yeah, God knows what to say about that. It's just a great line, you know. I agree. After that, we've got, Loose like the wind from the rough we get par. This is one of my favorite things about Pavement. They like to make sports metaphors they do yeah and we've got a whole song about sports and London Lions that was in my top 20, we've got bring on the major leagues possibly their biggest hit yeah but also just the line from the rough we get par, that would indicate to me after a bad start things have turned out alright right.

Track 3:

[30:47] And I know there's a prevailing feeling that the whole song is about their career or where their career has taken them I didn't know that well just the whole rattled by the rush just them being affected by, whatever level of fame they'd built up I didn't hear Pavement until 99 so I didn't get to witness the, right the ascent or the rise or whatever right you know right but yeah i've heard in doing a lot of research i did that this the whole song was about their you know them struggling to cope with you know whatever rise the rise to fame yeah and i do know from reading the liner notes and uh.

Track 3:

[31:39] In both Crooked Reign and Huawei re-releases that they were kind of fighting back against it. Maybe not fighting back against it, I think that gets overplayed sometimes. But I think Mark missed his explain. Maybe on Huawei or the Crooked re-release that they were kind of scared.

Track 3:

[32:08] You know how could you not be they were like a couple dudes from Stockton you know that were that recorded some noise art and next thing you know cut your hair comes out and that I would say is the biggest song oh yeah definitely I find that at the time as well it was just a really big time for music yeah a lot of majors were looking for the next Nirvana that's right Pavement were never going to be that. But they could have filled a hole, filled a gap. Spin Magazine named them the best band, pardon me, the best album of 2000, no, not 2000, 1992. Before the album even came out, right? Before it was chanted, yeah. No, no, it had come out. It had come out. It was the number one record of the year for 1992. So they came with a lot of buzz, like a lot of buzz. I remember reading the sort of tapes that they sent out for slanted they didn't send many out but every single one found its way to someone influential that's right I don't know if they were friends but they were fucking around with Sonic Youth.

Track 3:

[33:27] Certainly helped they opened for Sonic Youth on the UK tour yeah first time in the UK in 92 so that was there's a great Nostanovich podcast with another Canadian guy.

Track 3:

[33:42] There's like music journalism online oh is it creative control I think that's what it is I think that's what it is he explains that him Malkmus and Berman got a Nirvana show, cancelled, not cancelled but shut down in New York because they were being so boisterous. Really? Yeah, and this was before Nirvana took them to Redden and stuff, you know? Wow. So they were in that... They were in that space. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Track 3:

[34:17] They probably were getting a lot bigger than they thought they'd ever be, were ever prepared to be. Absolutely. Especially, you know, Slanted came out with a lot of hype, but Crooked Rain all of a sudden was this record that had hits on it, gold sounds and cut your hair. So, you know, I think a lot of people got maybe a bit carried away about what they could be. Well, one of the things, it doesn't fit into the hype, one of the things I wanted to mention about Crooked Rain maybe one of the reasons I liked it so much is it's a little bit what I call country fried, okay yeah I can see that father to sister of thought especially right well that's wowie, Crooked Rain's got his own range life I'm sorry but whenever an indie rock band, introduces a little element into country, I call it Country Frights. Country Frights.

Track 3:

[35:14] Crookheads and while we are definitely Country Frights, one of my favourite modern bands, Parkey Courts, they're a bit Country Frights. I've heard a lot of comparisons to Pavement with them. Well, the reason I first listened to Parkey Courts is I've seen an article where Malchmus was in a record store and he heard Parkey Courts and he thought it was Pavement. Jesus Christ, really? That's the reason I first listened to them, you know? Yeah. And? What do you think?

Track 3:

[35:50] Their first album, definitely, I could see the comparisons. The same kind of attitudes, like not really caring about tunings or you know. Just the first take's good enough no matter what. But that is a real good album. You should listen to Lie Up Gold, Parquet Courts. I'll check it out. Yeah, it's very, very good. I was trying to think. Meat Puppets, they were kind of country fried. Yeah, yeah. Have you got anything else on Brattled by the Rush? Well, it might destroy every argument I've already made, but the first chorus, I'm Drowning for Your First, that reads to me like being desperate for someone's attention, And that's not pavement at all, you know? No, no. Maybe that's something very personal to Malchus. Yeah, I'm drowning for your... The second album's kind of... The second verse, I think he's just showing off. Rhyming candelabra with Barbara.

Track 3:

[37:12] There's other lines. get all those hard hats and sing us some scat. I just think he's scatting himself there, you know? Yeah. Although the very last line, again, it's one of their best. I don't need a minister to call me a groom. I love it. What does that mean to you? What does it mean to me? I think, well, I don't need a minister to call me a groom. Like, you can, like, fuck religion. and you can go and get married or you can do whatever you want.

Track 3:

[37:47] Well, this is maybe just completely personal to me. Have you ever been in a sort of strictly friends with benefits relationship? No. No. Well, I have. I was for a couple of years. And to be honest, it was maybe the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. But um i noticed during that time that friends of mine who were in traditional relationships, they fucking hated it oh wow because i was getting all the good stuff without, all the bad stuff you know and i never had to meet her parents i never had to go on any any dates with Ikea. See what I did there? I got it. Yeah, so every time I hear, I don't need a minister to call me a groom. That's what comes to mind. Really? That's just maybe because of, you know, where I was at the time. Yeah.

Track 3:

[38:53] But yeah, again, I've seen that linked back to the music industry. And I guess Malcomus doesn't need I don't know who the minister is but to call me a groom would be to call me a star you know, okay I can he's already a star selling you know a quarter of what other bands are, and then of course they go on I'm rattled by the rush I'm rattled by the rush etc that that.

Track 3:

[39:29] And I know that Pavement's writing is sometimes a bit obtuse or weird, but that has to be a reaction to whatever level of fame or popularity they've gained by that point. I can see it. We've got the interlude, no soap in the John. That's very funny. I know that John's a sort of Americanism for toilet. Yeah. So to me, that would mean no sort of airs or graces.

Track 3:

[40:06] Or they're not going to clean themselves up for whatever, whoever. You've done a deep dive on some of these. I've thought about it a little bit. Yeah, you have. I've had a lot of time recently.

Track 3:

[40:23] Well, dude, speaking of time, it's been a great time hanging out with you talking pavement. I really appreciate you making some time for me and doing this, hearing your pavement origin story and talking about Song 15. Next week, we're going to hit Song 14, and I'm going to tell you what it is right now. No, I'm not. I'm just kidding. All right everybody is there any clue is there any clues you can give to like not what's in the top 10 or not a bit no way is there anything that took you by surprise, it all took me by surprise so far yeah we're gonna at the end of the series we're gonna do some sort of round table with people who haven't got a chance to be on and they will um, discuss the list as a whole because they'll have the entire list at that point. It's difficult, you know, recording this and you don't know all the songs that come before it. But hey, that's part of the game. I should point out that with my whole Crooked Re experience, Gold Sounds is my number one favorite song from anyone of all time and it's probably never going to change. It's a fucking great song. And if it's not number one, I'm going to write.

Track 3:

[41:44] All right, dude. Talk to you soon. Wash your goddamn hands.

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